To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Why is having a child a more valid choice for taking paid leave than having a holiday or tending to ill parents for example?

no one is comparing the two in terms of ease. No one said your maternity leave was a holiday.

But why is your choice to put your body and mind through that, more acceptable to an employer than taking an extended period of time to travel/look after sick relatives etc

@KimberleyClark well I’m sorry to hear this if that’s what you wanted but it’s clear that your post animosity to people getting a free holiday stems from whatever grief you’re holding onto. Don’t direct it at other women. Use your annual leave and get some perspective.

@ouch321 if it’s a simple lifestyle choice and we get all this time off to do whatever we want, and you’d like some of that, then why don’t you make that choice?

more importantly, why am I arguing with stupid?

This

Some companies offer leave to help with local charities - tasks like painting meeting rooms, or digging and planting gardens, renovating buildings and play areas etc.

For everyone woman like you there is one like me who had a ‘holiday’ for 12 months.

And I say that even after having a section! Recovery easy, baby easy, travelled a lot and lots of me time due to DH having 6 months enhanced paternity leave.

I’m glad you had an easy experience - I really do mean that! @MeganCrossing and if that was the norm maybe the OP would have a stronger point.
But you can surely see that it is not the norm to have an easy breezy time as you did, travelling and having lots of me time and learning how to do hairdressing… and most women know that before choosing to have children. And by that I don’t mean it’s a bad time, but it’s certainly for many women not easy by any stretch of the imagination. To say that ‘for every woman like me’ there is one like you is a massive stretch! Maybe for every 10! I think it’s even less. And I think I had a pretty average time of it - tiring, difficult, but bizarrely enjoyable nonetheless (bit like my paid job too!) - for every woman like me there is more likely one having a really hard time, not an easy one. And that’s the tricky thing about maternity leave - you can’t really plan it out as you would a paid sabbatical - you hope for the best, you realistically know that it won’t be easy breezy, but sometimes you are dealt very lucky cards like you were (but not many are), some get dealt a really shit hand and then everything in between.
Not sure how many children you have - it sounds like one? May your next, if you choose to have another, give you just as much of an easy time!

the childed

???

Therapy is needed I think.

As I said to the OP - suggest it to your employer.
a lot of employers provide carers leave, so you can look after sick relatives.

also have a think who will be around and working, keeping the economy going, staffing the services you require, when you’re older and retired.
you’re welcome.

They don’t provide this out of the kindness of their hearts.

the internalised misogyny is great. “Why do you get it when I don’t, so no one should get it”. You should move to the US. No maternity leave there for you to resent.

Yeah they don't want that. They want a holiday funded.

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Can you believe there are people out there who are also paid to be off work while they are sick too??
Slippery slope!!

also why have more than 1 baby if maternity leave is so awful?

That’s like saying why have more than one if your morning sickness/ birth/ PND was so awful?
Babies do grow older… they are not always babies. Many people love parenting their toddler and older kids but the baby years are a slog to them. I don’t think that’s uncommon.

No I really wouldn't. I had some lovely times on mat leave, but there were also some down right miserable times too. Having children is a life changing situation and for some more so than others.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 exactly this!
no offence OP…. Or offence, whatever actually, I don’t care. BUT you really have no leg to stand on with this argument because you haven’t experienced having a child.

Should smokers not get paid sick leave for treatment?

It’s silly women who refuse to look outside of their lovely NCT bubble that don’t help.

Not everyone can afford NCT classes, or to keep up pension payments on SMP. Not everyone has a partner or extended family to help. Most women, even relatively well paid ones, pay a large chunk of their income toward childcare, hence a well documented and current campaign to improve this.

Lucky you if you were not in the majority. (That’s a genuine comment). But not everyone has a jolly old time on ML. Some women suffer for PND or worse. Some take a long time to recover physically or have post surgery complications. Some children have additional needs. Not everyone takes to parenthood like a duck to water.

It’s silly to not consider everyone’s experiences in such a debate or indeed trawl through threads being derogatory to women who haven’t had it as easy as you say you had.

I think we can assume from your posts, particularly this one, that you had a lot of help with your baby. Your reference to your generous salary implies that you were able to afford a nanny or similar. In that case, yes, your maternity leave period was presumably very relaxing. This is not typical. Many women do not have such high paying jobs and have no informal help to call on. They do not spend their maternity leaves going on holiday, pursuing hobbies, or otherwise relaxing. They spend it looking after their babies which for most women, I think, is rewarding and wonderful but also nothing at all like a holiday.

Regardless of your rather ghoulish fixation on the right of those who have suffered stillbirth to take their maternity leave, which is clearly a compassionate exception designed to relieve them of the need to apply to their employers for other forms of leave at short notice and at a very difficult time, the fact is that maternity leave exists to benefit the child as well as the mother. It is widely agreed that the best person to care for a child in the early weeks and months of its life is usually the mother, not least because the guidance is that breastfeeding is the best form of sustenance for babies up to 6 months. Maternity leave supports women to provide this care. It also (rightly) allows women to recover from childbirth, but it is not about giving women some sort of lifestyle boost. The fact that you were able to use your mat leave in this way is nice for you, but means nothing at all about maternity leave and it’s purpose generally.

Maternity leave isn’t a holiday. And society NEEDS people to keep having children. Imagine if everyone stopped having babies to get the free holiday 😂 and to be honest I’d just take the free time off to travel first and then have a baby afterwards?

Do people have a straight face when they type "the childed?" 😂

Op, if you'd started a thread about better leave/pay when caring for sick relatives you'd have got a better reaction. I'm not sure why you decided having a pop at mothers was the better route to take.

Interesting thread - on this basis though if it isn’t about SMP it is about what employers choose to offer as benefit packages.

As long as it isn’t Government funded I think it’s a great idea hahaha

Brilliant. I've never taken maternity leave even though I've had 2 children. Perhaps I'll ask my boss if I can take it now the DC are at uni.

Flexibility/sabbaticals should be available to all workers but maternity/paternity leave is a separate issue.

@MeganCrossing based on some of your comments here, I think they probably consider the £86k spend on not having you in the office, as money well spent! 😃

I don't even disagree with a lot of what you say but the tone and patronising manner in which you contribute is a lot. Surely as someone intelligent enough to earn what you do, you can see that yourself?

If your company offers 6 months EMP, it probably offers sabbaticals.
Maternity pay. Even enhanced is subsidised by the government from day one so your point about it not being government funded is absolutely moot.
Discrimination is a funny one, as surely since shared parental leave has been a UK policy for years now, men should have the same access to a funded holiday...
Good luck fighting for a decent salary if that was to happen.

My maternity leave was absolute hell, PND and 2 suicide attempts. I've no intention of having anymore so can I also take extra time off every 2 years in "lieu" of maternity leave?

Oh wait. My position was filled by the back door whilst I was off and I was made redundant, so no. I can't.

Have fun in your rose tinted world though.

Sabbaticals are unpaid.