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To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

1000 replies

JudesBiggestFan · 30/10/2022 19:31

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

OP posts:
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Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:19

if they get intercepted by border force and end up in accommodation how many are ending up in farms and how?
After they submit an asylum application, they are often housed in hotels. These are not prisons. They simply walk out and are picked up by gang members.

Where are they when the mafia threaten them. At work, is it their boss?
Usually the threats to them and/or family happen before they are sent onwards from Albania into boats to cross the channel. That’s why they are compelled to sneak away from safe accommodation with an asylum application in place. The government just reported that 222 asylum seeking children housed in hotels have gone “missing”. “It comes as figures suggest 1,322 asylum-seeking children have been housed in hotels rather than long-term homes over a three-month period - and, as of 19 October, 222 of them are missing.” news.sky.com/story/migrants-moved-from-overcrowded-centre-as-figures-show-222-children-put-in-hotels-are-missing-12736129

Most of these missing children are young girls aged 15-17 being trafficked for sex.

Here is a heartbreaking story where a woman’s family were told by a mafia member that they had an arranged marriage for her. They forced her into it. The “fiancé” then faked a move to Italy, where the mafia then trafficked her for sex. The “fiancé” said he sold her to pay off a debt he owed to mafia and it was either “her or him, and so it’s going to be her”. She eventually escaped to France and got a boat here. But the Home Office wants to send her back to Albania which I think is a travesty.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dark-realities-of-country-home-office-deems-safe-a8219901.html

Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:24

@walkinginsunshinekat
@Discovereads the law was changed to allow them to come here and claim citizenship and BNO was extended to increase numbers. I don't know why you are pretending it wasn't.

I haven’t. I have said that Hong Kong is a special case because the Hong Kongians are British Nationals due to it being British territory until 1992. So it’s a false equivalency to compare them to Foreign National immigrants. They are closer in status to British citizens born abroad coming here (eg Boris Johnson) than they are to any foreign national immigrant.

Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:36

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 09:20

Can you link?

I thought the issue was with trafficked men too. Nearly 90 percent in the boats are male. Where are they from? Why such a big increase to 40k if not Albanian trafficking

The men are often not viewed as victims. So their asylum claims fail at a much higher rate. Even when they are found at cannabis farms, they are frequently arrested, charged and sentenced to prison. They are often not recognised as modern day slaves nor given any assistance. The sad thing is after prison, they’ll be deported back to Albania to be trafficked all over again.

www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/albanian-man-trafficked-uk-grow-northampton-cannabis-farm-thanks-judge-prison-sentence-3086175

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:42

I’m struggling to see how hundreds of fit young men are being ‘trafficked’?

Cornettoninja · 02/11/2022 10:44

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:42

I’m struggling to see how hundreds of fit young men are being ‘trafficked’?

Why?

Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:44

Here is another article.
”Two men accused of helping to run a £400,000 cannabis farm have been freed after it emerged they were victims of human trafficking.

Police found Alfred Dimo and Julien Beqaj locked in an industrial unit along with more than 1400 plants.

The men, both from Albania, claimed they were being held against their will and forced to work as “gardeners”.

They were arrested and spent 10 months in prison awaiting trial.

Dimo, 43, and Beqaj, 20, were accused of producing cannabis at the unit in Muirhead, Lanarkshire, on May 4 last year. They were released after pleading not guilty at Airdrie Sheriff Court on Tuesday.

The Crown asked for the case to be deserted after a “conclusive grounds decision” by the Home Office that there was a strong possibility the men had been trafficked.”
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsscotland/trafficked-albanian-drug-crew-locked-in-scots-cannabis-farm-freed-after-10-months-in-jail-awaiting-trial/ar-AAVLDX8

But as you know from the case of Sara, it being confirmed you were trafficked as a slave doesn’t mean your asylum claim will be approved. You have to also be “genuinely in need of protection”. Home Office doesn’t think even Sara meets this- which is infuriating and inhumane. So men from cannabis farms will most certainly continue to be put in prison or deported.

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:45

Cornettoninja · 02/11/2022 10:44

Why?

I just need somebody to outline for me how this happens to make sense of it in my head. Because right now it doesn’t.

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 10:47

Prison is no help - it’s obviously awful but also costing more

There appears to be a disconnect between what they think will happen when they arrive at destination and the reality.

So first at least get them information. A campaign in Albania targeting the age range - we have provided £9m to provide jobs to dissuade people from leaving. Given the pathways people are talking about it’s intercepting mafia rather than providing jobs, as jobs already exist.

Another point is when they arrive, they can be informed of the horrors they will experience if they are get picked up by the gang from the hotel.

Coercion is difficult, if the family is threatened. Not saying breaking this model will be easy but at least people should know what the reality is likely to be. It’s not a cleaning job or otherwise and if that’s what they think start there.

Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:47

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:42

I’m struggling to see how hundreds of fit young men are being ‘trafficked’?

Plaku was ordered to complete the work under threats to himself and his family. Plaku also was “working off” a debt of £15k he was told he owed for the privilege of being trafficked. He’s just been sentenced to 11months in prison.

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 02/11/2022 10:48

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:45

I just need somebody to outline for me how this happens to make sense of it in my head. Because right now it doesn’t.

If you read the articles linked just before your post it should give you an idea.

InMySpareTime · 02/11/2022 10:53

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:42

I’m struggling to see how hundreds of fit young men are being ‘trafficked’?

This document from Hope For Justice (an anti Modern Slavery charity) outlines the ways people are generally trafficked in the UK.

https://hopeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UK-Modern-Slavery-and-Human-Trafficking-Briefing-Document.-Oct-2022.pdf

The screenshot (a page from the document) says the majority of their referrals were male trafficking victims.

To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?
Discovereads · 02/11/2022 10:55

It’s not just Albanian organised crime trafficking slaves to the U.K. This is from Northern Ireland. The promises are often just honest work for honest pay, it’s not promises of riches. So the men being tricked into being trafficked are not being greedy or trying to get rich quick.

“A man has revealed how he was trafficked to Northern Ireland by an international crime gang as a slave, forcibly injected with heroin and forced to sell it on the streets of Belfast.
He was beaten and ordered to sell the deadly drug around the streets of Ulster for 12 hours every day by his Lithuanian gang bosses - and he names notorious gang leader Gintas Vengalis as the thug who enslaved him though he says some Northern Irish people were also involved.”

”Among the 18 people arrested was a Lithuanian businessman in his 30s, Kestutis Klemauskas, the alleged boss of the entire Russians gang, which used job offers to trick scores of unemployed Lithuanians into travelling to Ireland for paid work, only to be coerced into becoming full-time heroin and crack-dealing slaves.”

”One of those vulnerable Lithuanians spoke to the investigative reporters using the fake name 'Lukas'.

And the details of his life in Belfast are deeply disturbing.

He says he was living in poverty in Lithuania and offered work abroad. When he arrived in Dublin, the gang took his documents and shipped him to a different city, where he sold heroin on the streets under duress.

"They told me that there is a well-paid job in construction, but that it was in Ireland, and if I have the documents, if I want to make money, I can go to Ireland with him the next day," he said.

"I agreed because I wanted to work. I was told that I had to give my details, and better yet, an ID card, because his friends had to buy me plane tickets for which they would pay, and I would later refund them in instalments."

”Upon arrival in Belfast, Lukas was brought to a large house with at least three floors. Tired from travelling, he ate and retired to his room, where he went to sleep.

Soon he woke up to the sounds of a man screaming in agony in another room, begging for his life, as other men beat him to near death with what sounded like blunt instruments.

"There were muffled pounding sounds - I was really scared because it all happened suddenly and unexpectedly," he says.

"Then everything fell silent. I can't remember all the small details now, but I was told that I was indebted for the trip from Lithuania, and until I repaid the debt, I would have to live here and pay off my debt by selling their product.

"When I said I wouldn't sell [drugs], and that I was better working in construction, I was told I could only build a tombstone for myself, and if I made trouble I would end up under the ground."

”Lukas now understood why the gang's recruiter had been so interested in whether he had relatives or friends in Lithuania. They wanted to know if anyone would come looking if he went missing.

"I was locked in a room and when I said I wanted to go to the toilet, they threw in a bucket. If I talked back, I was beaten. It really got scary for me because I realised that if I disobeyed, they would kill me. That's how I became a slave in Northern Ireland."

”Members of the gang forcibly injected Lukas with heroin during the first two weeks of his captivity so that he couldn't escape. He says he was blindfolded each morning and driven to various locations across Belfast, with instructions to sell heroin from 10am until 10pm.

When the workday ended, someone picked him up, blindfolded him again and brought him back to the large house. Higher-up members of the gang then paid him in heroin, locking him in his room until the next day, when it was time to sell drugs again.”
www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/man-trafficked-to-ireland-as-slave-injected-with-heroin-and-forced-to-sell-it-on-streets/41516270.html

Croque · 02/11/2022 11:07

I think that the rule for claiming asylum in the first safe country was a sound one which should not have been compromised through taking various exceptions into consideration.

This country cannot realistically save every single victim of crime and oppression (whether or not genuine). The problem is that once word gets around that it is easy to get in (and stay) in a friendly country then there is no stopping the flow of people. From a migrant's point of view, it must be a nice feeling to be heading somewhere you already know is diverse, largely non-racist, welcoming, comparatively affluent. Why would they settle for anywhere else?

Fladdermus · 02/11/2022 11:32

Why would they settle for anywhere else?

Why not ask the vast, vast majority who do settle elsewhere?

There are currently 27.1 million refugees according to the UNHCR, The number taken in by the UK is a drop in the ocean.

ganachee · 02/11/2022 11:42

BBC news actually doing a decent job last night showing how these numbers are not new and asylum applications though rising were not as high as early 2000s. The only thing that is new is that their only route is now by dinghy. Also it highlighted that UK receives FAR FEWER asylum claims than most EU countries - it's NINETEENTH in Europe per population. Furthermore outside EU there are countries taking in much bigger numbers as posters have shared on here.

To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?
To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?
Rummikub · 02/11/2022 12:24

These stories are horrific.

Those poor people.

Legal routes need to be made available. And traffickers stopped but how?

id also like to see more public awareness of how cannabis farms are using trafficked people. As someone said above users should know about the ethics of what they’re using. Earlier hopefully do don’t start using in first place.

OneTC · 02/11/2022 12:26

Cuppasoupmonster · 02/11/2022 10:42

I’m struggling to see how hundreds of fit young men are being ‘trafficked’?

What you struggling with exactly?

WatchoRulo · 02/11/2022 12:30

ganachee · 02/11/2022 11:42

BBC news actually doing a decent job last night showing how these numbers are not new and asylum applications though rising were not as high as early 2000s. The only thing that is new is that their only route is now by dinghy. Also it highlighted that UK receives FAR FEWER asylum claims than most EU countries - it's NINETEENTH in Europe per population. Furthermore outside EU there are countries taking in much bigger numbers as posters have shared on here.

I didn't see the point in relating the number of asylum claims to the existing population - it's a pretty meaningless comparison since there are many other factors to take into account.

Croque · 02/11/2022 12:33

Claiming asylum in other countries is sometimes just a different way of forging a route to this country. I have spoken to people in various European countries who openly admit it. They endeavor to achieve a solid immigration status to then be able to apply to come here.

I am not saying every single one of them because there are success cases of many migrants settling in other countries . I don't know how man - I would not attempt to guess. But it is a thing for some of them, a means to an end.

ganachee · 02/11/2022 12:39

WatchoRulo · 02/11/2022 12:30

I didn't see the point in relating the number of asylum claims to the existing population - it's a pretty meaningless comparison since there are many other factors to take into account.

Fair enough, although it would be helpful if you detailed those factors.

Also the first graph clearly shows that the present numbers are not fantastically higher than they have been for many decades. I am of the view the Tories describing this as a crisis helps to distract from the major economic issues affecting the U.K. at the moment which their 12 years of rule have contributed to regardless of external factors.

I also think the inflammatory language used by Braverman and Home Secretaries before her is massively irresponsible.

gogohmm · 02/11/2022 12:40

Something needs to be set up that allows economic migrants to apply for legal visas in areas of the economy where we need employees - these people are wanting to work, a legal avenue will reduce the issues in the channel quickly. Asylum is not the same, they can arrive by plane even.

ganachee · 02/11/2022 12:42

Legal routes need to be made available. And traffickers stopped but how?

@Rummikub, legal routes would help significantly in reducing traffickers as asylum seekers will no longer need to use them.

InMySpareTime · 02/11/2022 12:46

Or even a way to say "I need asylum but would also like to work in this industry that you need workers in", a sort of temporary work visa but alongside an asylum application. Then actually process the asylum application in the sort of timescale of the temporary work visa.
Also give asylum seekers access to Mental Health support and counselling to help them heal from the events they need asylum from.

It won't happen, because this government wants us to demonise whichever vulnerable group is in vogue so we don't notice who the real scroungers are.

Rummikub · 02/11/2022 12:49

gogohmm · 02/11/2022 12:40

Something needs to be set up that allows economic migrants to apply for legal visas in areas of the economy where we need employees - these people are wanting to work, a legal avenue will reduce the issues in the channel quickly. Asylum is not the same, they can arrive by plane even.

Asylum seekers want to work too. They aren’t allowed to
Some of them are highly experienced doctors, engineers, nurses, social workers.

Some need to learn English first. Increase the funding for classes. instead of leaving people in limbo.

Rummikub · 02/11/2022 12:53

@InMySpareTime
@ganachee

agree with both of your posts.

Changing things doesn’t fit in with the current narrative.

As I’ve said previously I’ve interviewed people who have been waiting nearly ten years.

A qualified social worker ended up volunteering as a receptionist in a hostel while she waited years. She wanted to and could’ve contributed much more.

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