To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

[JudesBiggestFan]

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

@cakeorwine Turkey and Colombia wee v large countries. Very different in terms of housing many migrants.

I suppose because we assume most of them are wealthy and can pay their way but I may be wrong

Most opportunities have been defunded. Low skilled labour shortages like elder care are not the problem of asylum seekers who come from all walks of life and with all levels of qualifications and professions. I also don’t like the implication that low skilled, underpaid jobs are what asylum seekers are for ifywim? When we accept an asylum seeker it should be to help them rebuild their life, not to accept them as some sort of servant class.

Besides elder care robots exist and perhaps we should think about using then.

Does that include the economic migrants?

Why can't they do some of the jobs that have vacancies

I don’t agree with letting illegal economic migrants stay in the U.K.
They should be deported. They haven’t shown “tremendous drive and initiative” to travel 1000s of miles to get here. They have simply gotten on a plane and pretended they were tourists, which is fucking easy to do. It is nothing compared to the actual drive and imitative to apply for a U.K. visa to immigrate here as a skilled worker or family member.

They have shown a wilful disregard for our laws and have committed fraud on a grand scale. It is fraud because they’ve decided they shouldn’t have to pay for a visa, or pay the NHS contributions, or pay NI and income taxes to HMRC. They feel entitled to live here and benefit from our public services without contributing and with no respect for our laws.

What is wrong with wanting to improve the lot of my family? Wouldn't you do the same in my situation?". There is nothing wrong with wanting any of this, but it doesn’t justify immigrating illegally. My DH came here for a better life, to be safe from criminal gangs and gun violence, to have better education opportunities and a safer place to raise our children. He has done it legally every step of the way, scrimping and savings the thousands of £££ for visas and NHS contributions, paying his income and NI taxes to HMRC, working for a charity, volunteering for the community.

People who feel entitled to be here without applying & paying for a visa, and without contributing a penny of tax do not deserve any compassion or respect.

To the crowd declaring that “they’re all illegals/economic migrants”, I’d be interested in hearing how you respond to these two pieces of news from today.

“The majority of Albanian asylum seekers granted leave to remain in the UK in the past year were trafficked women, according to data obtained by The Independent.
Analysis from the Oxford Migration Observatory reveals that 86 per cent of Albanians who received positive decisions on asylum applications in the year ending June 2022 were women, whose leave to remain was granted on the basis that they were likely to have been trafficked and in genuine need of protection.”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania-trafficking-b2215187.html

And

“Child asylum seekers who have recently arrived in the UK on small boats say screening officials have put pressure on them to say they are adults, the Guardian has been told.
In some cases, the children say they were told that if they said they were over 18 they would be able to leave the troubled asylum processing site of Manston in Kent more quickly.”
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/01/child-asylum-seekers-say-uk-officials-pressed-them-to-lie-about-their-age?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Speaking of Manston, I wonder if anyone saw the BBC footage of the camp on the news earlier? You could see children (looked to be 10yrs old or a bit younger) running around on a playground inside the camp.

If you, like Suella Braverman, are labelling all asylum seekers as economic migrants, illegals and criminals, this is who gets caught up in the fall out. Trafficked women forced into prostitution. Children pressured to lie about their age. 10 year olds stuck in a crowded camp, at risk of diphtheria.

Hong Kong is a special situation. They were a British territory until 1992? I think and so everyone there born before 1992 was a British Overseas Nationals. So they had a right to emigrate here as would any British Citizen born abroad. A condition of handing Hong Kong back to the Chinese, was that all these people would not lose these rights because China does not allow any sort of dual citizenship. China had originally wanted every Hong Kong person to simply renounce their rights as British Overseas Nationals and become 100% Chinese citizens. The people of Hong Kong did not want this, so it was written in the handover treaty that they retain their rights to emigrate here for the remainder of their lives. So we haven’t invited them, we have fought for them to keep a right they were born with.

@Discovereads I bet some people are going to read your last post and think that “illegal immigrants” means “asylum seekers” 😁 9/10 don’t bother reading the thread, so they won’t have seen the previous 1000 corrections!

I’m too slow @Discovereads , now I mean your last but one post!

I think that politicians need to be careful about employing poisonous language as well though as it all contributes to dehumanising what are, after all, human beings.

Sigh, I hope not. Asylum seekers literally cannot be illegal economic migrants.
Its sad that people confuse the two though.

Not so, we changed the law to allow them to come here for 5 years, previous it was 6 months (changed in 1981) and then they had to return, now they can apply to stay.

They never had the right to emigrate to the UK, which is why, they are not allowed access to state funds.

It must also be remembered that many are older and will need care, they are also not subject to security checks, given what China is up to, thats beyond stupid.

HK is a relatively safe place & the UK has not the public services nor housing for anywhere between 3m to 5m people.

I don’t think we can say anything is “drawing” people when there’s plenty of evidence that people are being trafficked. It wouldn’t be right for eg to say that Albanian teenage girls are being “drawn” to the UK to work in enforced prostitution.

Teen girls is obviously heartbreaking in this situation. On a quick Google it suggests some figures (although not for last year) nearly 90% were male and 75% between 18 and 39 out of the 40k most are male.

What is their destination - drug related activity or other.. I’m only talking about males from Albania which is not at war, suggestions that they work in care, construction or health, what was it that they thought they would do here - what was promised

Plus it sounds like difficulty arises as not enough interpreters so language courses will be required which cost.The other issue is no passport so how do you do checks.

We can probably handle established methods of allowing people to arrive here but the Albanian situation sounds relatively new and the centre was ok only just in the summer.

Work visas are FAR cheaper and for longer than a partner visa for those married/civil Union/long term relationship with a British citizen www.gov.uk/government/publications/visa-regulations-revised-table/home-office-immigration-and-nationality-fees-6-april-2022:

Skilled worker, where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for three years or less - main applicant and dependants £625

Skilled Worker, where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for over three years - main applicant and dependants £1,235

Skilled Worker - shortage occupation where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for three years or less - main applicant and dependants £479

Skilled Worker, shortage occupation where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for over three years - main applicant and dependants £943

Skilled Worker - Health and Care Visa - where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for three years or less [footnote 2] - main applicant and dependants
£247

Skilled Worker - Health and Care Visa - where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for over three years [footnote 2] - main applicant and dependants £479

Skilled Worker - Shortage Occupation - Health and Care Visa - where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for three years or less [footnote 2] - main applicant and dependants £247

Skilled Worker - Shortage Occupation - Health and Care Visa - where a certificate of sponsorship has been issued for over three years [footnote 2] - main applicant and dependants £479

Partner visas are issued as either a 5yr route to settlement or 10yr route to settlement depending on income:
Route to Settlement £1,538 (renew & pay applicable fee every 2yrs and 6mos)

In addition to the visa fee is the NHS surcharge, which does not apply to asylum seekers, victims of human trafficking or workers on a Health and Care Worker visa or their dependants among others.

The NHS surcharge is £470/yr for anyone under 18 or a student under the Youth Mobility Scheme and £624/yr for everyone else. So the fee you pay is calculated using the length of the visa you are applying for.

In addition is a biometrics fee of around £130 to submit your biometrics for your BRP card. There’s around £59 to the Home Office and then the rest is a fee you pay at the processing centre or via the App if you’re renewing and they already have your biometrics on file. Yes, all legal immigrants with a visa have an ID card.

This doesn’t include the costs of an immigration solicitor which is strongly advised due to the difficulty of navigating the process and a good rule of thumb is that it at least doubles the total of all the fees.

You are incorrect. The BNO visa is a 5yr route to permanent settlement or you can keep renewing your visa. There is no limit. This is the same right to emigrate here and after 5yrs permanently settle that a partner of a British citizen has.
www.gov.uk/british-national-overseas-bno-visa

Overview

If you’re from Hong Kong and are a British national (overseas) you and your family members can apply for a British National (Overseas) visa. This is known as a BNO visa. It allows you to live, work and study in the UK.

You can apply for the BNO visa from overseas, but you should wait for a decision on your application before you travel to the UK.
Who can apply
You can apply for a BNO visa if you’re:

a British national (overseas)
18 or older
Your permanent home must be:

in Hong Kong, if you’re applying from outside the UK
in the UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man or Hong Kong if you’re applying in the UK
Your family members
Your family members can apply for a BNO visa if they’re eligible. They must usually apply at the same time as you, unless they are your partner or your child under the age of 18.

Check if your family members can apply.

How long you can stay
You can apply to stay for either:

2 years and 6 months
5 years
You will be able to extend your visa once you’re in the UK if you want to stay longer. You can apply to extend your visa as many times as you want.

After you’ve lived in the UK for 5 years, you can apply to live in the UK permanently.“

@MarshaBradyo Are you saying that teen girls trafficked into prostitution is heartbreaking, but teen boys & young men trafficked into cannabis farm work (which is not “fun” because it’s “drugs”, it’s terrifying for the people involved, it’s actual slavery) is no big deal because they’re male? You do understand that young men trafficked into cannabis farms and the like are held captive inside houses, not allowed outside, not allowed to call home, beaten if they disobey?

Trafficking is trafficking. I honestly don’t understand why you think that because they’re men/boys, them being trafficked isn’t believable, or worthy or understanding.

to work in enforced prostitution.

Can we just say what this really is? Women/girls being trafficked for sex aren’t “working in enforced prostitution” they are sex slaves. It’s slavery. We shouldn’t shy away from naming what is a modern day atrocity.

@Discovereads because of the connotations of that phrase and the fact it’s not the official terminology. It risks being seen as “emotive language” and not taken seriously when it is, as you say, an atrocity.

@BewareTheLibrarians
Agree many of the boys/men are also modern day slaves. Slavery isn’t just for sex. It’s for farm workers, house servants, drugs production, construction, car washes, nail bars, restaurants, etc.

You’re probably right, it just makes me angry that the daily rapes of girls/women kidnapped and held captive by force or deception where their rapists are paying money to their captors is being called “work in enforced prostitution”

Me too @Discovereads It’s just horrific.

YANBU. 75% of them are men aged 18 to 35. Why? Where are all the women and children? I’m enormously sympathetic towards asylum seekers, but to me that means prioritising children and women as the most vulnerable casualties of conflicts.

Well mostly males age 18 to 39 so not the teens. The suggestions that we take men who are here to work in drug related activity seems unwise without thought. I understand fleeing from war zones but life savings for what exactly in this case…

How much are you willing to vouch for people with no checks in a care home job for example?

I have no issue with established refugee routes or legal visa programmes filling work requirements. These seem sensible and can work well for both parties.

Staff talking about weapons crafted at the centre and staff fearing prison conditions sounds bad to me. Surely we do many checks on people before hiring as the norm.

But maybe you’re right and a job in a care home or building site would be no issue and not cause more issues for tax payer in terms of police work. In any case it’s just questions.. what were you told about coming here etc. Not sure why that’s so bad.

@MarshaBradyo I’m not suggesting who is fit for work or what what type of work. I’m asking you to understand the reality of the Albanian situation before suggesting that because they’re men and over-18 they can’t possibly be victims of slavery.

Jesus “men who are here to work on drug related activity” THEY ARE BEING TRAFFICKED AND FORCED TO WORK UNDER SLAVERY CONDITIONS.