Page 24 | To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

JudesBiggestFan · 2022-10-30T19:31:36+00:00

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

inamarina · 31/10/2022 09:55

IneedanewTV · 31/10/2022 08:06

Exactly this. If people are told they can’t talk about the issues they see and their concerns for fear of being called racist then that’s why we end up with petrol bombs and very right wing politicians.

On social media in the town that I live near are questions about the huge groups of young men hanging around the town Centre, harassing people. Yes they might be legal asylums, yes they might be educated, yes they might be trapped in the situation but that doesn’t help what people see and talk about whilst shops are closing, homelessness raising etc etc. Until people are told the truth, are asked what they want, and solutions found that do not discriminate then more right wing politicians will be elected. It might be called racism and ignorance by the be kind liberals but you are not living in these towns.

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That town you’re talking about sounds like the place where we live. Groups of men hanging around, teenagers (male) harassing people (happened to me more than once).

lannistunut · 31/10/2022 09:59

IneedanewTV · 31/10/2022 09:39

Ok so there are legal routes already in place. but clearly not working or being followed.

why is this?

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These are only potential routes if you are coming to study/work or already have family here - you have to apply from your home country before setting off.

There is no legal route if you are seeking asylum after fleeing from war, religious persecution or torture.

Look at how the UK treated Ukrainian refugees compared to the rest of Europe - UK left people (including unaccompanied children) waiting in the war zone, while Germany processed people swiftly on arrival.

UK relied on the fact that geographically we were further away than mainland Europe, and due to treaties France etc had to hold the border. Then we brexited. Brexit was a shit idea for lots of reasons, this is reason 4,227.

Discovereads · 31/10/2022 09:59

@Rinoachicken
So there is a legal way to claim without crossing the channel in a dingy??
Yes. Most asylum seekers actually arrive via plane using a fake passport. Fake passports are technically illegal, but asylum seekers are exempt from all laws concerning illegal entry, so a fake passport is legal for an asylum seeker. It won’t affect their application to stay.

Its actually cheaper to pay for a fake passport from a nation that requires no visa to come to the U.K. and for a plane ticket than it is to pay a human trafficker to put you in a rubber dinghy.

These asylum seekers simply identify themselves as asylum seekers to border control at the U.K. airport they arrive in as soon as they get off the plane.

lannistunut · 31/10/2022 10:02

Helpmewithteen · 31/10/2022 09:53

I agree that there is clearly something wrong with people who wish harm upon others saying things like ‘sink the boats’, but surely they are in the vast minority?

I’ve not met anyone in real life who thinks that way, although I have spoken to others who have legitimate concerns about immigration and the cost; the space; the language and cultural barriers that cause some issues.

These aren’t bigoted racist people, but they are living with huge change to their home towns, schools, and even their feelings of safety due to uncontrolled immigration.

The problem is that some people on the left of the political spectrum, just bundle their concerns in with the ‘sink the boats’ far right and that isn’t fair.

These people need a sane government to invest properly in making sure immigation does not fall disproportionately on some areas. The right wing response we have had for the last ten years stokes the anger but does nothing to tackle the issues.

Rinoachicken · 31/10/2022 10:04

You can legally apply for asylum from any country outside your home country - you do not have to be physically in the UK to claim.

www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

luckylavender · 31/10/2022 10:08

Bramblejoos · 31/10/2022 07:53

It was Blair’s gov which did not put limits on Eastern Europeans entering U.K. like the other eu countries did - so 300,000 per year - a million more to house every 3 years. The numbers have dropped but not by much.

Apart from Kent overflowing the reason we keep getting a Tory Gov is because they are more likely to be strict on immigration - but there is a chance we might get a more right wing gov if things aren’t improved. For the first time Sweden has a right to far right Gov,
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62908902.amp

We could easily go this way.

Because the Tory government handle it so well

MarshaBradyo · 31/10/2022 10:09

Discovereads · 31/10/2022 09:54

How can you have numbers capped?

Not picking on anyone, because this question has been asked a few times by different posters.

The answer is numbers would be capped by our capacity. We cannot predict what wars or genocides will cause more asylum seekers. We do know that demand could quite easily outstrip our capacity to take on more than a certain number of asylum seekers every year. Some would say we have already passed capacity given the overcrowding of our processing centres and the commandeering of hotels plus the often crowded and squalid conditions we are housing asylum seekers in. The extremely low living allowance. The fact we can’t process the applications in a timely fashion but have a backlog that is growing by hundreds per day. Our capacity isn’t meeting current demand.

We could invest money to increase our capacity, but there is a limit because again, we have one of the highest population densities in Europe. France could take in 68 million asylum seekers and still be less crowded than we are. There is also a fiscal limit because our economy is on the rocks and so we don’t have extra billions of £ to fund much of an increase in capacity especially when so many public services are underfunded and at breaking point. These are not things that can be fixed quickly either.

This is a good answer. It we have 900 a day risking their lives how many do people envisage with safe passage. It comes down to perception - do some think it would still be 900 but done somewhere else - or would demand increase by many. If it’s a very high number what then?

rockingbird · 31/10/2022 10:10

thereisonlyoneofme · 31/10/2022 09:41

I live in Kent, the people on the "front line" may have a different perspective to those living elsewhere and not affected by the thousands coming over.
Its time the Government got a grip and deported those who have no right to asylum, i.,e. the Albanians, and worried about the challenges from various organisations afterwards. Where are we going to house all these migrants when there is such a dire shortage of housing, Housing is being built all over Kent and elsewhere but mostly it seems 3 and 4 bed executive housing not starter homes.Are there any security investigations into the migrants ,we dont know who we are letting into the country. In Kent it feels like an invasion to many residents. I fear there may be more attacks on processing centres and more unrest in them as migrants begin to understand that things arent as they were told by the traffickers.

I also live in Kent and close to the madness that's currently going on. It's actually getting quite scary for us here and yesterdays incident apparently not terror related was a bit of a wake up call. We are effectively sitting on a huge time bomb, the detainees are getting more and more disgruntled and escaping - then going underground.! We have to do something, I'm not sure what but tackling the trafficking and the French blatantly turning a blind eye would be a start!

lannistunut · 31/10/2022 10:13

the French blatantly turning a blind eye TBF if I ws Macron I would not bust a gut to help the UK given our last PM* said she was not sure if he was friend or foe. The UK government needs to start working with other countries, not just slagging them off all the time.

*correct at time of posting, office of UKPM is subject to frequent and sudden change

thereisonlyoneofme · 31/10/2022 10:16

I would also like all those saying we should be letting everyone stay offer to house a migrant family themselves. Surely this will be taken up ???

Rinoachicken · 31/10/2022 10:16

Discovereads · 31/10/2022 09:59

@Rinoachicken
So there is a legal way to claim without crossing the channel in a dingy??
Yes. Most asylum seekers actually arrive via plane using a fake passport. Fake passports are technically illegal, but asylum seekers are exempt from all laws concerning illegal entry, so a fake passport is legal for an asylum seeker. It won’t affect their application to stay.

Its actually cheaper to pay for a fake passport from a nation that requires no visa to come to the U.K. and for a plane ticket than it is to pay a human trafficker to put you in a rubber dinghy.

These asylum seekers simply identify themselves as asylum seekers to border control at the U.K. airport they arrive in as soon as they get off the plane.

And yes this. There are legal ways, and other ways - NONE of which require you to risk drowning in the channel and paying £00000 to human traffickers in France.

This is not a asylum issue - it’s a human trafficking issue. These people are making extortionate amounts of money off people who are not aware of the other safer and legal routes to claim asylum - and these people are certainly not going to tell them - so they tell them that the channel crossing and then claiming asylum is the only way - when for many of them there is most likely a cinch safer legal way of them gaining entry into the UK.

Want to join family already in the UK? - there’s a legal route for that
Have skills and want to work - there’s a legal route for that
Want to study - there’s a legal route for that.
Fleeing war and persecution - there is a legal route for that, as well as other safer/cheaper options to get here. These people deserve our compassion and support and are rightly not penalised for using false documents to gain entry.

Want to come over to work underground cash in hand, be involved in organised crime, know you won’t get a visa approved because you are already a criminal in your own country? - fuck off we don’t want you. They know this so they claim asylum instead, muddying the waters for those genuinely needing asylum and adding burden to the system.

None of this is helped by the fact that our system is so poorly funded and staffed that processing legitimate applications is taking years when it should only take weeks or months.

Supersimkin2 · 31/10/2022 10:26

Central London outside my front door, now.

To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

Croque · 31/10/2022 10:32

Supersimkin2 · 31/10/2022 10:26

Central London outside my front door, now.

Well, if you are going to pitch up somewhere in London then you may as well choose an interesting place with a view!

Supersimkin2 · 31/10/2022 11:04

Albanian and Rumanian gentlemen have set up a larger camp at the opposite end of the park, which is now full. Tents are dotted all over the park now.

somewhereovertherain · 31/10/2022 11:10

Florenz · 30/10/2022 23:40

We do not need immigrants as our population ages. We are a small island that is already overcrowded.

Businesses that pay good wages have no problems getting staff.

There was no zero unemployment before Brexit.

Has this holiday park considered increasing the wages they offer?

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Who’s going to wipe your arse when you’re in a home. We’ve a massive old age crisis around the corner with no solutions.

im not talking just about minimum wage jobs I’m talking 20,30 even 40k - there’s just no one about. Add to that the ridiculous rents and the massive growth in Airbnb.

we’ve had pretty much zero unemployment in this area for the last 15 years. Major tourist destination and some large industry.

the Holiday Park - offers paid travel, free transport, all above minimum wage after all they are the best.

in my local village there are 27 businesses looking for staff.

and we’re not over crowded. Not even slightly.

ageing currently have 11 million over 65 and this is set to rise to 13 million over the next few years.

by 2050 34% of the population will be over 65.

Wheres as we currently have just 17% under 15 and this is dropping.

the Ons stats make worrying reading.

BewareTheLibrarians · 31/10/2022 11:25

On the “people of Kent” point, I am horrified that the government continues to let Kent take the strain with iirc no or little extra funding. This is the problem with closing legal routes - it increases boat crossings and leads to this unsustainable burden on Kent. There’s no reason that people in Kent should be put through this, having detention centres and overcrowded hotels in their doorstep. It’s an absolute failure of policy. It’s just that the current government has decided this is the way, and Braverman thinks you should just suck it up. When I campaign at the government I make it very clear that I’m doing it for asylum seekers and the communities who are bearing the brunt.

Case in point - current asylum claims in the year ending June 2022 = 63,000. (For comparison, the previous high was 60,000 in 2003.) Not all boat crossings, but enough to be putting a serious strain on communities in Kent. Asylum claim processing time has gone from 16 weeks to 2 years - that’s 2 years of hotels and hostels taken up and the expense involved, The time hasn’t increased just because of the number of asylum seekers, but because of Home Office inefficiency and staffing cuts.

Ukrainian visas processed = 140,000 and done with nowhere near the strain on any one particular area. They’re more evenly spread around the country.

There are also massive faults with that scheme but I find the difference in the numbers and placement astounding. Even allowing for some on the Ukrainian visas being family groups therefore living together*, it shows the difference between the impact on communities of a safe route and the impact on communities of continued boat crossings.

*safe routes allow for families to come together. Those in boats tend to be young men as women and children physically cannot make the journey and there’s a high risk of sexual assault and trafficking on the way.

BewareTheLibrarians · 31/10/2022 11:27

Short version - the govt manages to create a scheme that spreads 140,000 Ukrainians throughout the country. However they’re happy to “dump” some number less than 63,000 on Kent and leave them there for years because…?

The govt could reduce the strain on Kent but they’re not. Why?

FangsForTheMemory · 31/10/2022 11:29

JudesBiggestFan · 30/10/2022 19:43

@BashfulClam what are you on about? The people who come on boats then claim asylum? They have arrived via illegal routes. But even if my terminology is wrong, nothing I've said is hateful...you can't think this system is working for anyone, surely? I'm literally as guardian reading wokerati as you can get but if we can't discuss reasonable solutions/suggestions then you just leave it to the right to fill the gap.

The government has gone out of its way to create this situation. There is no working system. It’s deliberate policy.

kirinm · 31/10/2022 11:29

makemeamum · 30/10/2022 19:50

What we shouldn't be doing is putting them up in hotels, my hotel has cancelled all reservations for the next 6 months because the governments have purchased all rooms. If we liked it or not

Most are nice but some are frightening and pretty intimidating

Turns out the government hasn't actually been booking hotels and honestly, who cares about your holiday when you have small unaccompanied children being held in detention centres in horrific conditions for weeks? Even Tory MPs are concerned by the inhumane conditions which says something.

MarshaBradyo · 31/10/2022 11:31

Short version - the govt manages to create a scheme that spreads 140,000 Ukrainians throughout the country.

In people’s homes.

Do you think that can or should be replicated? To which people - all people who are arriving on small boats? The men too rather than women and children

lannistunut · 31/10/2022 11:35

BewareTheLibrarians · 31/10/2022 11:27

Short version - the govt manages to create a scheme that spreads 140,000 Ukrainians throughout the country. However they’re happy to “dump” some number less than 63,000 on Kent and leave them there for years because…?

The govt could reduce the strain on Kent but they’re not. Why?

I was reading many of these Ukrainian refugees are about to become homeless as the scheme was for six months...?

BewareTheLibrarians · 31/10/2022 11:36

@MarshaBradyo I do not expect families to take in single men, no. But not do I believe it’s ok to demonise men and say they’re not worthy of staying in a home just because they’re young and brown.

But are you saying there’s zero merit in a scheme that spreads people around the country, and you believe it’s right that asylum seekers are concentrated in Kent?

BewareTheLibrarians · 31/10/2022 11:38

@lannistunut hence the “massive problems with this scheme” that I was referring to. However, the problem isn’t concentrated in one specific area. That’s important in terms of (mythical) housing and jobs.

Museya15 · 31/10/2022 11:57

Stop making excuses and trying to convince people otherwise. Those boats are full of young men seeking economical asylum, they are not running from anyone and they are costing YOU the taxpayer billions but if you're happy to pay, that's absolutely fine. Nothing racist about stating facts but obviously you're not allowed to question anything when it comes to immigration as the ole racism card comes out full throttle lol.

IneedanewTV · 31/10/2022 12:05

kirinm · 31/10/2022 11:29

Turns out the government hasn't actually been booking hotels and honestly, who cares about your holiday when you have small unaccompanied children being held in detention centres in horrific conditions for weeks? Even Tory MPs are concerned by the inhumane conditions which says something.

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Well the govt has been booking hotels that’s fact. This poster works in the hotel. She isn’t losing her holiday. And anyway, why shouldn’t we be irritated if our hotel is cancelled?