To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

[JudesBiggestFan]

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

Thanks @UrricanesArdlyHeverAppen and phew, I’d used ”irregular routes” in a work policy doc, so I just wanted to check I wasn’t really outdated or completely wrong!

It was more to do with a combination of a very slow iPad, a really interesting thread on the Christmas board, a feeling that I’m wasting my time responding and trying not to get banned because I’ve lost patience with you and told you you’re a blithering idiot.

I am off to bed now though, and I’ll be at work in the morning rather than on here, so you keep on using whatever term you like and I’ll sit on my hands and pretend that I think you know your arse from your elbow. Deal?

As I said, I’m a little rusty on the exact legal contention and I don’t want to cause you any problems because you’ve taken my word for it!

Yes, the British government and the British apeople seem happy to house asylum seekers for 1.2 billion pound a year, don't see anyone kicking off about it, so everything must be good.

@UrricanesArdlyHeverAppen It was for an awareness in schools & educational facilities factsheet thingummy, so not legally binding or involving anyone’s claim, and I take full responsibility so please don’t worry! 😁 I’m probably completely overthinking it as no one else will notice!

If that is the Family Reunion scheme then no, the government's Nationality and Borders Bill removed family reunion rights.

@UrricanesArdlyHeverAppen
An immigration solicitor (And I do mean a solicitor, not just an immigration advisor) will understand exactly what I mean. They use the term ‘illegal immigrant’ because it has seeped into the public consciousness so deeply that people use it to refer to anyone who doesn’t have lawful leave. Do you expect someone whose first language is not English and who got off a small boat several months ago to have an in depth understanding of the differences between illegal entrants and overstayers? Of course not.

This is a lot to unpack. Yes, “illegal immigrant” is deeply engrained because it’s been in use by everyone for over half a century. However, the vast majority of immigrants are not nonEnglish speaking and arriving to the U.K. on small boats. It’s interesting you automatically associate immigrant with channel crossing asylum seeker. So your implication that immigrants can’t understand what an illegal entrant or an overstayer is and that’s why immigration solicitors use the term “illegal immigrant” is rather a derogatory assumption. Especially since the bulk of work carried out by private immigration solicitors is for well educated, professional, fluent English speaking (many native English speaking) immigrants.

I’m well aware that there are numbers of undocumented migrants in the UK who the Home Office is completely unaware of. Of course they exist. But they are not called illegal immigrants by anyone who knows what they are talking about.
Undocumented migrants is more of a US term and is used there as a less offensive synonym for illegal immigrant. The synonym gaining popularity in the U.K. to replace illegal immigrant is irregular migrant. But this is all semantics, because a change in accepted terminology doesn’t erase the existence, need for or meaning of an umbrella term. Also there are plenty of illegal immigrants that the Home Office are completely aware of, and these are not just overstayers or illegal entrants- foreign offenders is another.

your question is so far from being clear it’s ridiculous. You want me to tell you what we’d call someone with leave if they left the UK illegally? We wouldn’t call them anything because they wouldn’t be in the UK and as we don’t do routine exit checks, we wouldn’t know how they left unless they were stopped travelling on a false document.

Oh dear, you have failed to answer the question: “Name me one way a legal immigrant can become an illegal immigrant by illegally leaving the U.K.?” 🙁 My question wasnt what would we call them…they don’t have a name like “overstayer” they simply become illegal immigrants. And this isn’t that obscure of a rule as it applies to every immigrant and crops up in the news every couple of years or so when it has a inhumane result. I gave you a fighting chance.

But I think the issue is that while I do believe you have work experience in immigration as you said, I suspect it has been limited to asylum seekers and refugees as you always seem to turn the discussion in that direction. You don’t appear to have much experience with other types of immigrants and the laws and regulations pertaining to them.

@UrricanesArdlyHeverAppen

you’re a blithering idiot.
I’ll sit on my hands and pretend that I think you know your arse from your elbow. Deal?

Not very nice of you to say the above. I guess you’re miffed I stumped you on a simple immigration rule question and are lashing out.

You admitted to being “a little rusty” upthread. Bit of an understatement tbh.

But olive branch: I will give you a full legit and verifiable answer to my question, if you apologise for calling me a blithering idiot and repeatedly pretending that illegal immigrants do not exist.

The systems - home office, borders, olive, courts - are all significantly more broken after 12 years of cuts. Cases take far longer to be heard for example.

Clearly we have Brexited meaning we are no longer working well with France.

No one is saying things were perfect in Calais in 2007 but anyone with eyes can see the impact Tory cuts have had on all enforcement services since 2010.

There will always be a crisis. It will get worse in the next 20-30 years as the climate crisis will cause more people to seek shelter in other countries. But I think the way right wing media portrays it is entirely wrong.

Firstly, most of the people applying for asylum get granted about 70 percent. So that is against the media narrative that a lot of people have no right to be here. There will always be people that play the system. That is a fact. But that is true in every walk of life e.g., benefit systems, furlough just cause some people want to con the system does not mean you make every single person suffer.

Next, there is another narrative that gets spun by the Daily Mail particularly and Nigel Farage that asylum seekers get put in 5-star hotels. That is not true particularly opposite actually. Many are put in cramped, overcrowded unsafe conditions.

Yesterday, we saw an "incident" in Calais were someone threw a petrol bomb. Act of terrorism would have been a better title. It always happens when someone is White particularly it is mental illness or an incident. But the same would not have been afforded to a Muslim attacker for example. Some people were actually condoning it. "What do you expect people are angry" typical victim blaming.

People like Farage love to spin lies and hate that is what keeps him relevant. Immigration is what he is known for. The guy who is worried about immigrants, asylum seekers being rapists but never mentions when White men rape others. Of course, he won't he has his own agendas to pursue. It is another thing the media does (Muslim rapist, African rapist, Romanian rapist) but when it is a white man just man who raped. It is clear what the media are doing they are causing fear that non-White men are a huge threat to society.

I assume people are talking about it as a greater number are crossing in small boats than previous years.

More people are risking their lives to get here, and with climate issues likely to keep increasing.

If 900 are willing to cross per day, when you open a processing centre in France how many people will you get per day? Will it be the same 900 just processed in an orderly system or more

@PukDetektiv
Really? I remember Calais in the glorious days of Tony Bliar, the system was already broken, and nobody cared

Pray tell how many came across in dinghies....none.

How many detention centres did we have in Kent..... none.

Vast majority were refugees and not economic because of course we could send back failed asylum seekers so little point coming here in the first place, just to be sent back...

No longer have those agreements, hence Sunak talking to Macron... guess where that will end..

...and regardless IF the system was broken, why, after 12.5 years haven't the Tories fixed it?

What changes have occured that mean that people are now attempting to cross the Channel in flimsy inflateables ? I don't remember this being a thing 10 years ago, so what has happened ? In 2018 there were about 300 people who crossed in total over the year, now, that would be seen as a very quiet day in the better weather months ?

Is it because of cuts to services ? So fewer staff and resources ?
Changes to security measures elsewhere ? Tightening security in one place spreads the problem ?
Reduction in other options, so less traffic crossing the Channel means fewer opportunities for stowing away on a lorry for example ?
Increase or change in criminal activity ? Trafficking gangs ?
Increase in the number of people fleeing other area's ? So peaks due to events in Afghanistan and other countries ?

I imagine that it is a combination of lots of different factors that have led to the situation as it is now and there will not be one simple solution.

Albania isn’t at war.

This is what 'taking back control' looks like in reality - we are on our own and the government has slashed all relevant authorities/services.

The most obvious solution is to elect a party that invests in the state to deal with problems.

@BirmaBrite If you know there is a very good chance you'll be sent back to France..... you don't come here in the first place.

Thats the big change in the last few years.

There isn't any solution.

“Next, there is another narrative that gets spun by the Daily Mail particularly and Nigel Farage that asylum seekers get put in 5-star hotels. That is not true particularly opposite actually. Many are put in cramped, overcrowded unsafe conditions.”

I booked a hotel in southsea for the Great South Run a year in advance. 6 moths earlier this year the hotel was cancelled because of a govt contract. It want a 5 star hotel but it wasn’t cheap.

Most aren't from Albania, again, previously, they could be sent back to France, can't now and they know it.

@HelloMrBond - there are no legal routes. Our government shut them all down. This is a global problem so it needs leadership and cooperation. That's the first thing I would consider. I would reopen legal routes, go after the people smugglers who run the boats. I would put a processing centre in Calais and I would process those who come to the UK quicker (takes years now) so that those who are successful could contribute to society.

I think this thread is a good example as to why the people of Kent voted Brexit. Posters talk to other posters like they are idiots for voicing an opinion that they don’t think is kind, correct, whatever. People should be able to voice what they think without being called idiots.

if 300 people are arriving daily and 70% of them are entitled to asylum status then that is what we need to understand. Who are these 70%, are they mainly young men, are they skilled, does our economy need them? If they are entitled to asylum do they receive benefits, council houses, where do we house then, how can our schools accommodate them, do they get a NHS dentists etc? That’s what people want to know. Let’s talk about these questions and then the people of Kent might understand what is happening to their council tax, their high streets, their homelessness services.

You realise don't you that France takes many more migrants than us. France is not the enemy, no matter what the right wing tries to tell you. We need to work with France properly, not superficially.

I agree it’s why Brexit was successful, people won’t vote for vague be welcoming at another time either.

Show numbers, costs, capacity, and how many will need to be processed per day if legal routes are opened.

But they are not France's problem. They haven't come from France. This is a global problem. And it's going to get worse.

In our town, one of the biggest hotels has also been chosen to house refugees.

The hotel is right next to a small shopping area with a few independent shops and cafes.

Those businesses badly need the tourists usually staying in the hotel and will be struggling if the footfall falls any further.

The rest of our high street is already in a completely dire state, lots of shops boarded up, that little street is one of the very few pleasant ares remaining.

Sounds like you can't be bothered to do a bit of research.