To wonder why it's bad to 'beg for sweets' but not bad to drag around a burning effigy of a Catholic while begging for money?

[TheWindBeneathMyFlaps]

Is it because one is perceived as American by people who are a little bit thick

DH is 50. He went trick or treating and carved vegetables. He's from Essex.
We have photos of him and all his little friends dressed up.

Where did this idea that it's American come from? And even if it was American would that be enough to not celebrate something that kids enjoy? When the UK was off spreading its culture forcibly all over the world that was fine, but when one of its former colonies spread a little back, it's offensive.

As with most traditions, it's just what you are used to and were raised with.

Yes, and as with most traditions, it should be perfectly possible for grown adults to accept that other people do things differently, without sneering or being overly dramatic about it. And the constant snobbery about anything that might possibly have come from or have been influenced by America is incredibly pathetic and tedious.

I turn 51 on the 31st and went trick or treating as a child, as did my children (they're a bit old for it now). We put pumpkins out. We don't fill our house with 'plastic tat' and I don't know anyone who does. YANBU, OP.

I'm in my 50s and grew up in the south. Halloween passed unnoticed for us.
But bonfire night was a big thing, the village had a big bonfire and there were lots of fireworks.
One year some of us kids went around with a guy in a pushchair and collected money which we gave to charity. For us there was no thought of his religion or really of him as an actual person.

It's a bit weird in this leafy middle class neighbourhood

For us there was no thought of his religion or really of him as an actual person.

Regardless of his religion, the bloke got caught while attempting mass murder.

Burning his effigy on top of a bonfire seems entirely appropriate to me.

Lots of people actually carried out mass murder. But they were the winners.

Now I don't mean to derail - but I always thought the Burning Effigies would be a great name for a punk or metal band.

The religion of Guy Fawkes wasn't the point - his failure was the whole point and this is celebrated by Catholics as well.

The religion of Guy Fawkes was very much the point. He was part of a Catholic plot to overthrow the Protestant king and instate a Catholic monarch. The stricter Catholics I know absolutely do not celebrate Bonfire Night!

Carving the turnip (swede) was definitely man’s work in our house. My father did it for me to take to the Brownies’ party. I’m slightly older than your husband @TheWindBeneathMyFlaps and you had to be enormously cheeky/hard to attempt trick or treating when I was a child.
I’ve never thought of Halloween as American, but trick or treating obviously is and it took off in England in my lifetime. Why should anyone on the receiving end like it. I believe it wasn’t even popular in America when it took off there either.
We don’t burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes because he’s Catholic but because he was a dangerous terrorist.
Asking for money in the street isn’t as annoying as asking threateningly at the door.
In the early eighties unsupervised trick or treaters (they always were unsupervised) did things like smash milk bottles on your doorstep if you didn’t give them anything. Of course people hated it.

IMO Halloween has only become so huge in the U.K. since the advent of so much black and orange plastic tat in the shops. It’s been commercialised in a way Bonfire Night never has, because (except for fireworks) it doesn’t lend itself to a lot of cheap, made in China tat.

Mumsnet is full.of killjoys over Halloween. There was trick or treating 50 years ago in Derbyshire too, at school we carved turnips and were read ghost stories. I think over time the pumpkin thing has got bigger, with pick your own farms and carving etc but the treats have remained the same.

The stricter Catholics I know absolutely do not celebrate Bonfire Night!

I went to a convent school. We had a school bonfire night event every year. A big bonfire with burning guy, fireworks, baked potatoes, apple dipping etc.

The nuns who organised it (many of them Irish) seemed to enjoy it just as much as we did.

Back in my 80s childhood we had hat, masks, fangs, fingers, etc that you could buy in shops. Also facepaints, decorations, lanterns, themed sweets/cakes/biscuits, toys, etc.

Yes, @FarmerRefuted , but I was referring to an earlier era, when old fartettes like me were kids. My dds were kids in the 80s.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER but for a lot of younger posters with kids we’ve only known what you describe as the ‘tat from China’ version of Halloween. So we’ve not been witness to the decline or whatever. I was born in the 90s. There’s always been plastic tat present in my childhood!

Plenty of catholics hate guy fawkes night

Let's bring torture and capital punishment back then, after all if they know the consequences it's OK isn't it.

He was a human being just like you and they tortured him and we should be ashamed not celebrating it. I don't think burning effigies of the pope is appropriate but it isn't the same thing as celebrating torture and murder.

Don't be daft. I didn't say i agreed with it, i didn't say it was right. But he knew what he was facing. And he tried to blow them up, which is a painful awful, possibly slow and lingering, death.

I'm not ashamed of pointing that out.

Let's bring torture and capital punishment back then, after all if they know the consequences it's OK isn't it.

Society has moved on.

We shouldn’t judge our ancestors actions by today’s moral standards.

Ancestor’s

I’m (nominally) a Roman Catholic… not sure if you can really ever “leave”!
Halloween is celebrated enthusiastically in my house - not because we believe in ghosts, God or Satan, but because it’s great fun to decorate the house like it’s Christmas, and allows the DC to mug willing participants (those displaying a Jack O’Lantern on their doorsteps) for unreasonable hauls of confectionery.
Anyone who assumes that we are nefarious Satan-Worshippers are immediately written off as completely Batshit and avoided at all costs from there on in.
Bonfire night however, unless you’re in Lewis (Sussex) is unlikely to sport a burning Catholic (they normally burn the Pope, I think) - so you are conflating two different events here, I believe…

Brought up Catholic, so we never did either. Fireworks and bonfire sure, but certainly no guy!

I think the Christians who believe Halloween is evil tend to be more the Baptists than the Catholics. That's in the UK.

Carol singers are bloody annoying as well so it’s not anti-American prejudice.

@Clarice99 great minds.

You seem very angry OP. Who so aggressive? If you didn't want us to think your 50 yo husband was going out with his little friends now you should have been clearer! Gave me a giggle at least.

Yes , Baptists and Pentecostalists would probably see Halloween as a bit dodgy. Ditto Mayday traditions I suppose. So would Presbyterians in theory? Yet Halloween survived in Scotland .

I'm 52 - raised in a church going family - we always celebrated Halloween with a kids party. We dressed as witches and ghosts, apple bobbed, hung apples and soap on string and had to bit things blindfolded! Had worms in jelly,

We also did penny for the Guy and burnt him on a big communal bonfire - so yes it was a thing! I do fireworks now - if I can make it to the communal show - mainly because I like them - but I don't really celebrate the reason behind it and agree OP - it's pretty devisive

Love Halloween though - love seeing the kids dressed up trick or treating - just don;t knock on my door before Monday!