To wonder why it's bad to 'beg for sweets' but not bad to drag around a burning effigy of a Catholic while begging for money?

[TheWindBeneathMyFlaps]

Is it because one is perceived as American by people who are a little bit thick

DH is 50. He went trick or treating and carved vegetables. He's from Essex.
We have photos of him and all his little friends dressed up.

Where did this idea that it's American come from? And even if it was American would that be enough to not celebrate something that kids enjoy? When the UK was off spreading its culture forcibly all over the world that was fine, but when one of its former colonies spread a little back, it's offensive.

People on MN jus hate fun

not sure why they bother having kids when Halloween, soft play, Disney, theme parks and everything else is seen as beneath them

see also: hating all kids except their own and not having anyone round to their houses, ever.

I have not encouraged my kids to get involved in Halloween as it is meaningless rubbish and am pleased to say they have no interest in it

I have told them about November the 5th as it an important part of English history

If you do not like the English or its history no one cares

God the 'out and proud' ignorance. 🤦‍♀️

I'm always so embarrassed for posters like this.

I’m 50 and we most certainly did not have trick or treating in London/Surrey borders when we were kids. Bonfire Night was the big celebration, and the kids would do the whole ‘Penny for the Guy’ thing which I’ve not seen in forever now.

BUT my husband is from rural Cambridgeshire and they did have carving turnips or swedes and small scale trick or treating. They also still had Wassailing, May Day poles, May Queen’s and Whifflers, Molly Men and Straw Bears celebrations (and still do in some parts). So I think if your husband is from Essex it was probably still a hold over from more ancient rituals, that were gone in other parts of the country and have now made a comeback.

I love Halloween, and so does DD, she’s still annoyed she can’t do it anymore as she’s too old. It’s lovely seeing everyone dress up and meeting people in the neighbourhood, we’ve never had any trouble in 20 years.

What people resent is changing an ancient British festival to make it a copy of the made-up modern American one. British Halloween is spooky, it’s about witches and ghosts and vampires and flickering candles grinning at you through pumpkin teeth. It’s timing comes as the world darkens and people believed for one night the dead could cross over, and it coincides with when our ancestors used to slaughter most of their cattle because they weren’t able to feed them through winter.

There would have been a lot of gory piles of cattle bones being boiled to make stock, and thinly sliced flesh being laid out to dry, while people ate as much of the meat and harvest as they could to build a layer of fat against winter. At the same time, vagrants who’d slept in sunny fields all summer moved to the warmer towns for winter and there was a lot of burglaries as well as door to door begging. The locals often left a parcel of food on the step for the begger/burglar: a ‘please don’t break into my house’ gift. This is the origin of trick n treating.

Traditional Halloween in the UK is an echo of all this, a reminder that things were much harder for our ancestors and a warning that winter is coming and to prepare. Every year (even in Britain) many people die over winter from flu, cold, undernourishment etc and at Halloween we acknowledge that a lot of people are about to die.

The American festival seems to be all about kids playing and dressing up as butterflies and robots and anything and just having a general party and celebration. It feels shallow and pointless compared to the ancient British traditions so it’s irritating watching it take over. And it’s particularly irritating seeing Halloween ‘celebrated’. The coming of winter isn’t something to celebrate it’s something to shudder about.

I have just googled straw bear and am a bit traumatized.

Mumsnet is being weird for me and every time I post I get weird formatting and then can't use it again.

I don't think it's a case of 'it's American so not ok.'

We did guising (Scotland) at Halloween, a costume, a hollowed out turnip (thanks, Dad ), apple bobbing, toffee, doing a 'turn' for a small coin or sweeties. All good fun and the domain of small children.

Now, it seems to involve lots of ghoulish plastic tat (bloody bandages, severed limbs, face masks with scars, fake blood are some of the things I've seen in the shops, not what I'd want a child dressed in tbh) - there are aisles of it in the supermarkets and Home Bargains etc. It's become yet another retail opportunity, a chance to make money, shit on the environment, very far removed from the low key, fun celebration for primary aged children.

I can confirm that Benwell, Elswick, Scotswood, etc are still rough as fuck. Even Fenham, which used to be considered a 'nice' area isn't what it used to be. Obviously there are reasons why deprivation has grown and its not all bad, I could go into depth but not the time or place. Yes though, Halloween and Bonfire Night are both awful in these areas. The fireworks will have already started I'll bet, those big booming ones that sound like an actual war is going on outside. I remember it from my childhood, especially my mam taping the letterbox shut at night because putting them through people's doors was a thing.

We moved away too, before we hit our teens my parents decided they didn't want us being teenagers in Benwell. It was a bit of a theme, lots of my friends parents moved out of the area at that time too.

Unseelie, great post.

What people resent is changing an ancient British festival to make it a copy of the made-up modern American one.

American traditions aren't 'made up'. They were brought over by Irish and Scottish settlers and developed in tune with the US cultural and societal backdrop. Like pumpkins for carving - way better than turnips, let me assure you.

Other peoples traditions aren't 'shallow and pointless' simply because you aren't familiar with them and don't understand them. Try to open your mind a teeny crack.

You are also free to celebrate Halloween however the hell you like. There are no rules.

British Halloween is spooky, it’s about witches and ghosts and vampires and flickering candles grinning at you through pumpkin teeth. It’s timing comes as the world darkens and people believed for one night the dead could cross over, and it coincides with when our ancestors used to slaughter most of their cattle because they weren’t able to feed them through winter.

I think a lot of you haven't experienced it in America. It is spooky and dark for the older children. Little kids just prefer to be princesses and mermaids. But the houses are decorated as haunted houses every house has a pumpkin. Some scary, some funny, some political!. It's not just a random dress up day.

I'm a similar age to your DH, and in my area, kids did not go trick-or-treating, except at the nearby American airbase. There was however a "mischief night" tradition, which usually seemed to involve taking elderly people's gates off their hinges, and was not something people wanted to encourage.

So perhaps it is not "people who are a little bit thick", but people who come from a different area of the country, where the American tradition took longer to spread.

DH did the turnip thing. I honestly don't know how you can carve a face in a turnip. I can barely cut them into cubes for dinner. Any vegetable would be easier than a turnip.

Ok not thick. Just very unaware of the rest of their own country and its history and traditions.

I honestly don't know how you can carve a face in a turnip

Its an absolute shitter of a job. You need a very sharp knife. And brute force. Childhood memories, huh?

Plus the smell and the mounds of turnip that then had to be eaten. We welcomed the pumpkin with open arms in our house.

Doh. The pictures OP is talking about are 45 or so years old!

It’s bloody awful. We did turnip or swede.

To be clear, it's a swede that was/is used, so a bit bigger than the thing that English people call a turnip.

We call swedes turnips in Scotland.

Interestingly, in my 1970s and 1989s childhood the dressing up for guiding was not spooky costumes, it was just general fancy dress- I have pictures of me as Paddington in a duffel coat, as a Japanese Geisha in my Dad's silk dressing gown, as an alien and my brother as a Viking. My Mum made herself a spectacular Wonderwoman costume for an adult party once. Given that the Celtic tradition does seem to go in for the spooky side, perhaps the non-spooky costumes were a re-import from America. I do vaguely remember a fair few binbag witches as well, but zombies were not a thing at all.

The most crucial thing was that we never ever bought costumes, everything was made from whatever we had at home. I try to follow this rule in my Mum's memory now. Fortunately DS says he wants to be a ghost this year!

I remember my mam cutting the top off rhe turnip and scoring squares into the top of the flesh with a sharp knife. We then used a spoon and a butter knife to carve out the cubes (into a pan, Halloween tea always featured mashed turnip). Once we'd done that layer, she'd score squares into the next layer and on and on until it was all hollowed out then she'd cut a face into it. We would put two little holes either side to thread string through to make a handle, the candle went inside and the lid went back on. We carried it around with the candle lit in our bin bag costumes, plastic masks that stank, and either a green or orange cardboard witches hat with little sticky out squares around the bottom. At bedtime the turnip would go on the bedroom windowsill (lit) to frighten away witches and inheritance evil things that might come looking in during the night. I remember it being important that it stayed lit and if the candle went out we would ask the nearest adult to relight it for us.

I can still smell the aroma of burnt, wet turnip and that black sooty patch on the inside of the lid. There is no smell quite like it and pumpkins don't have the same stink!

Now, it seems to involve lots of ghoulish plastic tat (bloody bandages, severed limbs, face masks with scars, fake blood are some of the things I've seen in the shops, not what I'd want a child dressed in tbh)

Halloween, like Christmas and the rest, isn't just for little kids. So keep them away from that and leave it for people that want them?

Guising, not guiding (though we always did a great Halloween party at Guides, with dooking for apples and treacle scones on strings). And 1980s, not 1989.

Ours was a swede too but we call them turnips in NE England.

I am in my 50's and where I grew up (south east England) Hallowe'en wasn't a thing. We knew about it and maybe some people carved vegetables, but I don't know of anyone who went trick or treating. Guy Fawkes and bonfire night were the main thing.

Some time in the early to mid 90's Hallowe'en costumes and trick or treating became a Big Thing in the UK.

I don't like it - have had my door egged before and I wasn't even home from work yet.

I also think the origins of Guy Fawkes are horrendously barbaric.

"I can still smell the aroma of burnt, wet turnip and that black sooty patch on the inside of the lid. There is no smell quite like it and pumpkins don't have the same stink!"

I love that smell. I'd buy a candle if it if I could!

My Dad always did the dangerous carving, with a lot of swearing.

Scottish tradition, used to go guising when we were kids. Bang on doors, do a song and collect a few sweets or coins.
Did penny for the Guy as well but that was a different occasion.
It’s Americanised now but it was a Scottish thing in the 60s when I was a kid.

I don't think I've seen anyone with a guy on bonfire night since the mid 80s!