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Rishi is PM - coronation, unelected -GE Now

1000 replies

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 24/10/2022 14:06

This is not democracy.

OP posts:
Rosscameasdoody · 01/11/2022 12:33

TheNosehasit · 31/10/2022 14:45

Because it's not relevant in 2022

It’s supposed to be relevant for the term of government, otherwise what’s the point?

TheNosehasit · 01/11/2022 12:35

Rosscameasdoody · 01/11/2022 12:33

It’s supposed to be relevant for the term of government, otherwise what’s the point?

It usually is relevant. But coronavirus hit in 2020 and then Putin invaded Ukraine. So you can't really hold them to a manifesto which didn't predict either of those events nor the catastrophic impact of those events.

Rosscameasdoody · 01/11/2022 12:38

Well I will be happy if proved wrong, but labour had in the past, found ways to screw up even when there was no oppurtunity.

Wow, that’s a brave statement after the royal screw ups from the Tories the last few weeks.

Rosscameasdoody · 01/11/2022 12:49

TheNosehasit · 01/11/2022 12:35

It usually is relevant. But coronavirus hit in 2020 and then Putin invaded Ukraine. So you can't really hold them to a manifesto which didn't predict either of those events nor the catastrophic impact of those events.

No, but I can hold them responsible for the state the UK is in as a consequence of Sunak’s profligacy during the pandemic - almost no checks and balances against fraud and error in the furlough and loan funds handed out, making them unrecoverable. I don’t relish being forced to pay higher taxes to make up for government allowing organisations like Liverpool Football Club to claim tax payers money to furlough their back room staff while still paying the players full salary. I can hold them responsible for not means testing the support for energy bills, and for not making the energy producers pay their fair share from their obscene profiteering. And I can certainly hold them responsible for the absolute shit show of the last few weeks. Whatever the underlying cause, they’ve made a dog’s dinner of it and it’s time we had our say.

Badbadbunny · 01/11/2022 13:36

Rosscameasdoody · 01/11/2022 12:49

No, but I can hold them responsible for the state the UK is in as a consequence of Sunak’s profligacy during the pandemic - almost no checks and balances against fraud and error in the furlough and loan funds handed out, making them unrecoverable. I don’t relish being forced to pay higher taxes to make up for government allowing organisations like Liverpool Football Club to claim tax payers money to furlough their back room staff while still paying the players full salary. I can hold them responsible for not means testing the support for energy bills, and for not making the energy producers pay their fair share from their obscene profiteering. And I can certainly hold them responsible for the absolute shit show of the last few weeks. Whatever the underlying cause, they’ve made a dog’s dinner of it and it’s time we had our say.

I also blame Rishi for excluded 3 million workers from the covid support schemes.

AND

Allowing universities to virtually close down their campuses and put huge numbers of support staff on furlough, whilst at the same time, expecting students to pay the same fees for sub standard teaching without the usual "face to face" activities such as labs, libraries, and other facilities, and substandard support services such as IT, pastoral, careers, etc which were done badly online with huge delays in accessing them (due to so many staff being on furlough, leaving just a skeleton staff to deal with the same number of students!).

whoknew123 · 01/11/2022 13:40

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 24/10/2022 14:06

This is not democracy.

Only it is democracy. This is the rule of the party that the GB electorate voted for. Don't like it, then campaign for a fairer system for the majority to vote in favour for. FWIW I think it stinks also but it's our job to ensure they're voted out asap.

L1ttledrummergirl · 01/11/2022 13:40

I was one of the workers who received zero support. I blame Sunak for that as well.
Not only were we without my salary completely for a year but we also had ds1 home from university doing his lectures online.

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 07:51

Furlough should have been a loan not a gift.

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 07:54

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 07:51

Furlough should have been a loan not a gift.

How would someone furloughed pay it back?

eg a person working in hospitality received 80 percent of wages and used it to live during a long period of time. Accumulated a fair amount. Goes back to work and needs to live off a wage which won’t be high.

Not doable.

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 02/11/2022 08:10

This is a completely unrealistic idea.

Furlough was a necessary part of lockdown, and lockdown could not have happened without it. If the state is going to ban millions of people from earning their living, the state also needs to provide them, immediately, with enough money to live on in order to prevent significant unrest.

By all means argue that furlough shouldn't have happened if you think we shouldn't have lockdown, but the idea that anything other than giving people money was going to be possible once lockdown had been chosen is on another planet.

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 08:12

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 02/11/2022 08:10

This is a completely unrealistic idea.

Furlough was a necessary part of lockdown, and lockdown could not have happened without it. If the state is going to ban millions of people from earning their living, the state also needs to provide them, immediately, with enough money to live on in order to prevent significant unrest.

By all means argue that furlough shouldn't have happened if you think we shouldn't have lockdown, but the idea that anything other than giving people money was going to be possible once lockdown had been chosen is on another planet.

Exactly. Furlough wasn’t the issue it had to happen with lockdown.

Ask if lockdown should have happened instead.

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 08:28

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 07:54

How would someone furloughed pay it back?

eg a person working in hospitality received 80 percent of wages and used it to live during a long period of time. Accumulated a fair amount. Goes back to work and needs to live off a wage which won’t be high.

Not doable.

It's not doable retrospectively no. We shouldn't have locked down for so long and so hard. And wealthy privileged peopled should not have benefited from it either.

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 02/11/2022 08:33

It isn't doable retrospectively but also wasn't doable at the time.

Certainly there are arguments to be had about parameters and eligibility, particularly as time went on and the scheme had been running a while. But there did have to be some state support, available immediately, if there were to be any lockdown at all. Have a think about what would've happened if millions of people were told that they weren't going to be allowed to earn a living for an open period, but would instead have to either manage on their own or become indebted to the state for the money to live on. Do you think they'd have been happy, compliant, willing to stay at home and behave?

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 09:03

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 08:28

It's not doable retrospectively no. We shouldn't have locked down for so long and so hard. And wealthy privileged peopled should not have benefited from it either.

The sectors most likely to shut down were hospitality etc with lower earners. Someone on £2k for 12 months has no chance of paying it back. Professional services with higher earners were more likely to wfh

I agree question length of lockdown though. Furlough was initially for 8 weeks then was over a year. Only because restrictions continued.

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 09:06

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 02/11/2022 08:33

It isn't doable retrospectively but also wasn't doable at the time.

Certainly there are arguments to be had about parameters and eligibility, particularly as time went on and the scheme had been running a while. But there did have to be some state support, available immediately, if there were to be any lockdown at all. Have a think about what would've happened if millions of people were told that they weren't going to be allowed to earn a living for an open period, but would instead have to either manage on their own or become indebted to the state for the money to live on. Do you think they'd have been happy, compliant, willing to stay at home and behave?

We shouldn't have locked down for so long. That was becoming obvious after two or three months. So no, people wouldn't have needed to be forced to stay at home. And the vulnerable should have taken steps to stay away from others. We would have still had a bill to pay. But not to this level. Fucking stupid thing to do.

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:09

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 09:06

We shouldn't have locked down for so long. That was becoming obvious after two or three months. So no, people wouldn't have needed to be forced to stay at home. And the vulnerable should have taken steps to stay away from others. We would have still had a bill to pay. But not to this level. Fucking stupid thing to do.

Idiots (particularly on here) were BEGGING FOR LOCKDOWN. You'd think it was some sort of Utopia being locked down, such was the appetite for it. Do you not remember the threads 'Should I report my neighbour as she went for a walk at 2pm and came home at 3.01pm?'

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:10

If you even so much as whispered about lifting restrictions, there was a veritable army launched giving examples of extremely clinically vulnerable. You were a murderer if you mentioned coming out of lockdown!

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 09:12

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:09

Idiots (particularly on here) were BEGGING FOR LOCKDOWN. You'd think it was some sort of Utopia being locked down, such was the appetite for it. Do you not remember the threads 'Should I report my neighbour as she went for a walk at 2pm and came home at 3.01pm?'

Yes I bloody do remember them. Hideous people. Occasionally you get the odd one still calling out for lockdown, enforced masking and vaccines. With no care of who is paying for it. As long as it's not them.

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:13

LesterBiggott · 02/11/2022 09:12

Yes I bloody do remember them. Hideous people. Occasionally you get the odd one still calling out for lockdown, enforced masking and vaccines. With no care of who is paying for it. As long as it's not them.

Till my dying day, the word lockdown will continue to invoke sheer terror in me. 😬

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:15

The whole thing was driven by mass hysteria.

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:17

As for the next-slide-please fella, he still haunts me. 😆

I suspect he has been knighted. I'd have shot him if I had the chance lol. (that was a joke mainly )

MarshaBradyo · 02/11/2022 09:17

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:10

If you even so much as whispered about lifting restrictions, there was a veritable army launched giving examples of extremely clinically vulnerable. You were a murderer if you mentioned coming out of lockdown!

It was ridiculous on here

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 02/11/2022 09:18

@LesterBiggott when you say we shouldn't have locked down for so long, that sounds like it means you think we should have had some lockdown. Is that correct?

If it is, that means furlough. Any period of lockdown does. Because so many people in this country live on what they get paid and have no other way to fund themselves, and because lockdown needs enough people who are willing and able to stay at home. Otherwise it doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

If people who have been banned from doing their usual jobs are out doing cash in hand work because they're desperate for money, or protesting, or even just sufficiently alienated from the government that they think fuck you all I'll do what I like, they have more contacts than they would when they're at home. That makes the lockdown less likely to reduce contacts.

There's also the issue of furlough for childcare. Schools function as childcare in our system, so when millions of children are all of a sudden no longer in school, that has an impact on their parents ability to work. So again if a lockdown is to reduce contacts, which is what it's basically for, it has to pay enough parents to stay at home out of the way with their kids. If that doesn't happen, they start doing stuff like cobbling together ad hoc childcare networks with whoever happens to be free, which again means more contacts.

I'm lockdown questioning fwiw, but lockdown itself absolutely requires the state to give people money to stay at home. Otherwise you might as well not bother.

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:18

There was no mention or consideration of how the fuck we were going to pay back the massive cost of it because by golly, there were a lot of very valuable grannies all of a sudden.

TheNosehasit · 02/11/2022 09:23

The health impact of lockdown is not yet known. Yes, certainly we needed to lockdown until we got a hold on vaccinations but after that, there was no excuse for it. People enjoyed it though for some bizarre fucking reason.

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