Liz Truss has resigned. Part 4: The Desolation of Boris

[sunnydaytoday0]

Continuation from last thread, for those of us following all the action on Monday.

And yes I'm a LOTR fan, so tried to continue the theme in the thread title 😉

*have made and will make 🙄

So you support a general election?

By sidelines easy to judge them as talentless.

By all means if you feel that strongly give it a go and show them talent.

This is where I disagree a bit. Some politicians are definitely motivated by public service.

Some, mentioning no names, are definitely in for the power and money they can obtain.

I see more of the latter these days than I did 30 years ago.

I can't fucking stand Sunak! Never liked him for too many reasons........Total parasite & wealthy beyond most folks wildest dreams! All parties have a Sunak - Labour had that twat Mandelson, couldn't bear that disgusting vile rodent! Can't really post real thoughts here but you get the idea....... 😡

Thats a personal grudge rather than recognising stuff like how Gove has managed to make unnatural and begrudgingly positive impressions.

There was a comment earlier from a Liverpool Echo Journalist saying that Gove had surprised many in Liverpool with his involvement with the council that had been having problems and he seemed to be genuinely bothered about doing something worthwhile in terms of 'levelling up'.

I think that you don't have to be a Tory to see at least one positive thing in that cabinet. Even if its 'thank god its not Gavin Williamson as Foreign Sec'.

Don’t be so disingenuous. The government are in place to serve the people of this country and if they fail, and continue to fail, to do so, we are allowed to criticise and call them to account for it. It’s called democracy.

Hmmm yes. To a point.

I also disagree to a point as well though. Partly because out political system is FPTP and a party system.

If you watch politics you will see these bandwagons roll by. Brexit was one of those, where a lot of not very good people jumped on, those who disagreed were forced out of the Conservatives by Johnson before 2019. There is a qualitative difference between even 2019 and now... downwards.

Ask Charles Walker, he might have a better impression of me 😂

It makes people feel better to call them all talentless, sure Sunak, Wallace, Hunt have no idea I’m sure.

The other downside is politicians are put off going for leadership as it’s not worth the abuse. A Labour MP has admitted this is the reason.

Criticise decisions or policies - fine I do this - but this idea they all lack talent well give it a go.

It’s been a pretty good thread with nuanced political discussion but just the usual baseless stuff seems pointless.

I would agree with pre2016 it was better.

This is probably the best you are going to get from a bad bunch when you account for them having to play silly buggers to appease various factions.

I agree that the levers to do so are somewhat limited and flawed, but they are what they are.

@RedToothBrush - yes the best of what's left of.

I saw Mogg shouting at his own side today because apparently they'd "never accepted Brexit".

Once the Conservatives regain their pragmatic instincts they will recover. If they keep their head in the Brexit glue bag they will be out of power at the next election and the one after that

Braverman backed Sunak in the leadership competition, which I thought was strange as I would have picked her as a Johnsonian.

I expect the Home Office was her price.

I understand that there was a collective groan from the legal profession when she was appointed A-G a couple of years ago.

It isn't baseless to say that some of the current cabinet are talentless, this is generally said of Braverman and Raab, maybe others. I agree that Gove, whilst divisive, has a reputation for competence, as does Wallace. But it's a much smaller talent pòol these days since so many good MPs were kicked out for opposing brexit, and only brexit supporters were allowed in cabinet.

Once the Conservatives regain their pragmatic instincts they will recover.

I think it's more complex than that. Those pragmatic Conservatives do still exist as they always have, but the right of the party keep shooting them in the foot. And Johnson booted a lot of them, of course.

The last time the Tories managed to unite for any sustained period around a PM while they were the government is over 30 years ago: the coalition period is different because Cameron had the Lib Dems as kind of a buffer against the headbangers, and even then he still felt moved to risk our national wellbeing to try and neuter the right of his party.

So I just wonder whether it's actually sustainable for the Conservatives to hold as one single entity in these circumstances. It really is a very long time since they managed functioning majority government, by themselves, for a full term or nearly a full term. The last time that happened was 87-92, and even then their leader didn't survive it.

Very odd not to appoint Javid whilst giving jobs to people like Williamson and Braverman. God forbid that the cabinet should contain someone who is both capable and has principles.

Absolutely agree with you. There are some very good politicians but also some very incompetent ones, like you’ll find in any job.

The ones who I admire the most are those who really focus on their constituency and are well respected there (after all, MPs are elected to serve the best interests of their constituents).

The others who I admire are those who specialise in certain ministerial roles, and who resign out of principle when they have made a mistake or to protest against decisions made by the government, which takes courage and willingness to admit wrongdoing.

I’m really not a fan of any of the current ministers/government.

I agree it’s a shame Javid is not there, although there are others who are on the same level. I’m not convinced Labour is a great example though, if it was a hotbed of talent v the talentless then they’d not be in opposition so long.

Blair was pretty good though as things go, bar the war

@LaGioconda I wonder if Sunak sees Javid as an arch rival? Javid was Sunak’s boss at the Treasury (when Javid was Chancellor and Sunak was Chief Secretary to the Treasury), which just makes me wonder if there’s a bit of rivalry there. Obviously I don’t know though. It wouldn’t have been a bad idea to put Javid in a Treasury post, although if Sunak had wanted to keep Hunt as Chancellor (as he has done), putting Javid in any other Treasury post would have been a demotion, as he was Chancellor before, so it would have been tricky.

I get the impression Sunak wants stability and continuity as much as possible with this government, hence him re-appointing a mix of ministers from Boris’s and Liz Truss’s governments. Obviously though, many of his appointments have been controversial!

@MarshaBradyo Labour have their own issues, I agree. Keir Starmer only became leader in 2020, so still not that long ago, and I think he felt he had a lot of work to do to make the party credible again after Jeremy Corbyn spent a few years as leader.

It makes people feel better to call them all talentless, sure Sunak, Wallace, Hunt have no idea I’m sure

Sunak - Gave away billions to criminals in the form of business support loans, very little will be recovered, he wrote them off.

Hunt - admits to under funding the NHS and in particular, midwifery, leading to babies dying.

Wallace - Told the world that the 'Guards should be sent in to send Putin packing, the UKs 23k infantry would have been wiped out long before now.

I don't know what your definition of talentless is?

"See if you can do better?" thats usually thrown about by people who have run out of any argument, something you never normally do, so i'm surprised.

Yes they do. They been out for so long now though they are not tackling the issues they will face so it’s not really the same spotlight and reality. There will be factions, we’ve seen it with grumbling around picket lines and Lynch calling for Starmer to resign.

In this environment where there is no money it’ll be petty policies such as taxing private schools that appeal to meanness, or a one off WFT which won’t last long but it’s no Blair like optimism and vision.

You’re right though he had to get over the worst defeat since 1930s and he’s at least trying, even if it’s pulling things from other iterations of Labour first. They probably will be in soon so we’ll see.

Best case for either party is for the war to end.

I used to be fairly left, to the extent I refused to vote for Blair as Labour leader even though he was only up against Margaret Beckett.

The Blair government changed my mind. It was better than what we had before or afterwards. If a centre-left government is as much socialism as the UK electorate can digest, then it is sensible to put that on the plate.

We have seen with the replacement of Corbyn (who produced a record-breaking election loss) and subsequent turn to the centre that there are some difficult, angry people on the Labour left - just as there are red-faced gammons on the Tory backbenches. Nadia Whittome did not show herself or Labour in a good light with the deleted tweet saying that Sunak was "not a win for Asian representation". She needs to channel her passion for equality in a positive way, not knock things down all the time.