Young men who get stuck doing nothing...

[Bunny890]

My younger brother is living at home with my parents and I know several other young men who also get 'stuck' at home - endlessly online, alienate friends, not able to even look for employment or engage with healthcare. I realise that there is a mental health element to this, but I can't help but feel frustrated - Mu

Thanks for your reply. I'm so glad your DS made friends. We have spoken about voluntary work. She wasn't keen at first because she wants to have money like her sibling but I think we will look at it again.

I don’t think it’s blaming women to recognise that we’ve taken huge steps forward in the past 40 years or so in terms of being able to participate in areas that used to be massively male dominated. Imagine studying the gender pay gap in the 80s!

I don’t think there’s any point in pretending that this doesn’t come at the expense of some men. Not everyone can earn above the average wage or get a job they’re fulfilled by and the competition for those jobs, if you’re a man, has basically doubled. It also complicates finding a partner - if women don’t need you to provide for them then you might have to find another way of appealing to them that’s less straightforward than putting a paycheque on the table.

For women, all of this is great and I think long term a fairer society is a better one. BUT making society fairer means some people will lose a bit of what they had, and that’s understandably a threatening feeling. I think white women voted for trump for that reason - they can see that they’re starting to have to cede some ground to people of colour and that means a loss of power for them, so they voted to protect their own interests.

Totally agree about the shuttering of workforces that sustained a community being a huge tragedy - especially for men who tend not to be as well trained in making and maintaining relationships outside the house.

I think many of these recluses are just terrified of the risk of trying and failing in the real world. Online, you can pull the plug or reset and try again.
We test the crap out of kids, SATS, mocks, GCSEs, A-Levels, degrees, professional exams, we tell them that they can claim a state pension at 65 .. 67 .. 68 ....maybe 70. Teachers, parents, MSM tell them that if they fall off the ideal career path they're doomed.
Many people will hit the buffers at some point - great GCSEs followed by disappointing A-levels for example, are their any options to recover?
In my day, 'night school' offered a way to correct a bad start, and junior jobs weren't advertised as expecting degrees.
We need ways to help someone into the world of work at 24, lessons that some of us learned doing milk- and paper-rounds are not being given.

A lot of it is down to the fundemental change in the dating market since online apps were invented.

Back in the day the average guy could get an average girl from their peer group.

Now the average girl only wants a top 10% best looking man from Instagram or tinder.

Our education system encourages children to spend way too much time on their own, and at computers, instead of focusing on teamwork. For example it’s well known that the human brain has evolved to do its best problem-solving in teams, but we force children to study solo and they’re assessed on solo work.

For their free time - more computers, of course!

Then we end up with adults who don’t know how to get out in the world and their instinct is to hide behind a computer, alone. Schools need many more teamwork opportunities, like in the army and scouts. They learn and study as a group.

And I am alone on my phone and my child is in a different room on tv and upstairs DH is working alone on a laptop.

Sigh.

OP, you mention your mothers role and how she’s had to give up work - but where is your father in this? Fathers are traditionally the role models that young men are meant to identify with and learn from. Fromma psychoanalytic perspective, the phenomenon of the ‘puer aeternus’ is linked with the absence of the male:

As someone who went through part of my 20s in a stuck phase (wasn't violent or into drugs or porn though) what strikes me how people say these stuck people need to "get out there". How welcome do you think these stuck people are in most social circles?

During my stuck phase I didn't feel like I belonged anywhere. I remember desperately wishing for a real life way to connect with other people in the same situation. Once I was in a position to move out, relocate and rent somewhere it's like my social status changed completely. People spoke to me like an equal for the first time in my adult life.

I don't blame these people for staying in, sticking with their games and internet. I don't even know what I'd advise someone in this situation.

I know two and both are gamers and contribute nothing g to the household.literally stay awake gaming til 4am and never looked for work apart from a Saturday job in their teens and he gave that up.mum has found him a job that is v v part time and he is always late to that.he is pandered to and was never told off as a child-whereas her daughters are independent and work full time and left home ages ago.You cannot say anything negative about her son -he’s 28!

my son is nt and disabled but he has volunteered and lives independently with our support.We could have said live r we it’s us forever but he needed to leave the nest and try first.Itherwise when we’re gone he’s have no clue how to live independently and isn’t disabled enough to have a cater or live in a group home

This. He is an arrogant obnoxious prick

He’s an overgrown toddler e.g. threatening suicide when internet is withdrawn. Disappearing when he gets his own accommodation AKA sulking / flouncing

Way too much enabling. He actually needs firm boundaries. Or your parents will in effect be held hostage by him forever

Mum has had to give up her fulfilling career to look after him.

She didn't "have to". A grown man can take care of himself. She's enabling his lifestyle.

No sympathy for these useless men or their enabler parents.

What changed for you?

there are absolutely places who would welcome someone - soup kitchens, food banks, churches just for a start.

Unfortunately, bullying is so rife in schools that teamwork is painful for those being bullied (if their bullies are in the same team group!), so they just withdraw more and soon gain start to hate working in groups. Likewise on the sports fields - often only "team" sports are available, so again, those prone to bullying (i.e. those not particularly good at hockey, football or whatever due to weight, strength, or co-ordination) just get bullied for it by the ones who are good at sport who feel they're being let down on the pitch! No easy answers, but forcing team activities without dealing with bullying isn't the answer!

Look into asd. Could he be undiagnosed? I can think of a few men older than me who probably fitted into what you are describing. Looking back now I would say they had asd traits.

I have had this convo with my DH and Dad multiple times - my brother is a bit like this op and also my parents have several friends who also have sons exactly like this, some better some worse. It seems to me to be a modern phenomenon of young men not being able to ‘launch’ into adult life. I do think my parents are quite ‘helicopter’ parents but then it’s only one child who is like this. It’s very sad xox

Literally what changed was me and my partner were eventually in a position to pool resources and he was offered a job in a different part of the country. Luckily I met at partner at university as my stuck lifestyle wasn't really conducive to dating.

I'm not sure that there was a soup kitchen near me, thought they were more of a city thing. I don't think food banks were so prevalent back then and I did try church, it wasn't great, people didn't really know what to do with me, I was too old to be categorised with their teenaged children but I wasn't one of them if that makes sense.

My brother is like this OP, he is now 53 and I am 55, our parents are dead. He never left home except for one year to go to university, had a breakdown and came home. It’s too complex to sum up in a few lines but these are my thoughts:
Changed country at age 15
Bullied relentlessly at school back in england
possibly on the autistic spectrum
Dad was either over involved and enmeshed with my brother, or absent ( off working abroad)
Dad had a huge fear of the stigma of mental illness and did not accept psychiatric involvement, diagnosis etc so blocking therapy ( expect for prayer). To be fair, he did have involvement with psychiatrists and from what I could see most of that was useless
Mum was a gentle soul who was just starting to stick up for herself when she died suddenly at 54- brother was verbally and physically abusive towards her at times, while being childishly dependent physically and emotionally.
Brother has never had a job or a girlfriend expect for one or two flings. For sex he uses porn and prostitutes. He has a platonic lady friend who like him has mental health issues.
He inherited the home from Dad and is totally unsuited to home ownership- the place in is a frightful state, he can manage to use a cooker and a washing machine but little else. When things break he has no idea how to fix them or which trade to contact. Because of the state of the house most trades won’t set foot in there. He is now dependent on me for help and advice and intervention when things don’t work. It is quite a burden.
He was sectioned a month or so ago and they want to discharge him, I’ve told him the home isn’t safe. The heating has packed up, the place is hoarded, I could go on. I am taking 2 weeks’ unpaid leave to try and sort the place out, there is no help practical or financial from anywhere, it’s down to me.
My advice would be for your parents to think very carefully about how they make their wills. Any inheritance beyond about £20000 will cause a loss of benefits. A trust might be a possibility where money is ringfenced for him and benefits not affected. They need to start teaching him life skills now eg house maintenance, or consider not leaving a home to him, in which case I presume he would be entitled to some kind of sheltered housing. If he inherits the home ( as a PP said in the case of some farmers’ sons in Ireland) there is a real risk the home will end up in a state of terminal disrepair.

I know a lad like this. In his case it's definitely his parents' fault. He avoided everything growing up and his mum's response was always to just let him do (or not do) whatever he wanted. His dad tried to change things a few times but basically got overruled by her.

Dropped out of school. No quals. Never had a job. Looks now like he never will.

Nice enough bloke, not violent or anything. But no life to speak of. None.

This is Incel thinking.

Online gaming, porn and the fact the powers that be have made it so one man can no longer support a wife and few kids on his wage.

My dads kind of like this it's like a stunted growth type thing I dunno how to explain it. He does go out to the gym etc and will happily go and meet his brother or whatever for drinks. But 99% of the time he's indoors on his phone, if it's not the phone it's the laptop, if it's not that it's a game. He doesn't really do much else. Drinks way to much always sat down. Doesn't do any housework. My mum does it. Erm just about does school runs if he's asked.

When he was younger he spent majority of his life in the pub or out with mates. Doesn't see any friends now though through choice.
He Was treated for depression a whilst back and we do think he's also Autistic. Doubt it's related but it's defo a possibility.

Since going back through our family tree and as people are having kids and they are getting diagnosed. We've found so many of them on dads side who would meet criteria for diagnosing too.

I've an ex like this. 48 and living with Mum.
I think there were several early causal factors:

• ASD (actual diagnosis 10 years ago)
• Dad left the family when Ex was in his teens, and Mum kept Ex as replacement husband
• Ex went away to uni, and got a screenwriting job after, but had a breakdown (arts/media is tough), and Mum was only too happy to let him come home
• Dad was emotionally abusive, sensing weakness in his son, and Ex didn't have a proper father figure therefore
• Neither parent seems to have insisted that Ex learn any adult life skills

This, sadly, is my brother (aged 43) although he's not a gamer, doesn't take drugs. He does have depression. A few years ago our mum died and he finally moved out to retrain. It took a while for him to find a job and when he did, it wasn't what he wanted but he needed to start earning. And then Covid hit, his MH took a nosedive, he got signed off sick and it all went to shit. He eventually quit, moved back in with my dad and has been there ever since.

He does lots around the house and garden, helps friends with DIY etc but he just won't apply for jobs. I think he is scared of rejection having been unemployed for so long, and having to explain why in interviews. However, he's also essentially just pleasing himself, doing whatever he wants with his day, and I get a bit resentful because I work full time, am 100% responsible for my rent and bills etc while he lives at home and doesn't contribute financially.

I have spoken to my dad about it many times; he's tried to get my brother to look for jobs but my brother can be very manipulative - he will become tearful when dad speaks to him about jobs, but not with me. It is complicated by dad giving us some early inheritance - I am using it to buy a house but my brother seems to be living off his. It means he has no incentive to change.

I have asked them both what happens when dad dies. Hopefully a way off but he's late 70s so we need to be realistic. I have told dad that I don't want to be joint executor with my brother because if he refuses to sell the house once dad's gone, where does that leave me? I actually want my dad to get proper legal advice on this but he's so passive. The other issue I've raised is what happens if dad becomes unwell and needs care? That will fall to my brother if he stays at home. That might be the push he needs to move out. I don't really know what to do.

My brother is a big man child. He's perfectly capable of being independent but at home, and he lives with mum, it's like he's permanently 17.

He does work, and at work he's very competent and good at his job.

FWIW I think my parents have created this situation. I've always been pretty independent and I can't abide being unemployed - I will take any NMW job just to have money coming in, or have done volunteering when working wasn't an option. But my brother seems unwilling to consider jobs that he thinks are beneath him.

Unfortunately, bullying is so rife in schools that teamwork is painful for those being bullied (if their bullies are in the same team group!), so they just withdraw more and soon gain start to hate working in groups.

Absolutely. One of mine has struggled, fortunately she has things outside of school. But she hates anything teamwork related now, the girls at school are vicious and allowed to get away with it. School is an awful environment for many.