Young men who get stuck doing nothing...

[Bunny890]

My younger brother is living at home with my parents and I know several other young men who also get 'stuck' at home - endlessly online, alienate friends, not able to even look for employment or engage with healthcare. I realise that there is a mental health element to this, but I can't help but feel frustrated - Mu

@kittenkerfuffle thank you so much for the YouTube recommendation. I'm watching some of the videos now and they seem to address our situation.

There was a stage where my ds3 could quite easily have got stuck in a rut like this. He is quite an introverted character. Fortunately the turning point came where he met his girlfriend who has been great for him and he has now gone to Uni. Still has not found the confidence to get a lasting job ( has done short periods of work at times). There was a time when I seriously had to really lay down some rules about getting off the Xbox. Until going to Uni he could still be up half the night on it. I hope he has turned a corner.

I think the reduction of teenagers getting part time work is a contributing factor. It forces them (and particularly boys) to grow up and interact in different ways.

I think the idea that it is better to concentrate on studies alone is often misplaced. In turn it means more time for gaming and living nocturnal hours.

Cannabis use is also a big factor

I think there have been versions of this in past generations. It’s not at all uncommon in country families that one of the brothers never leaves home, ostensibly staying to work on the family farm, eventually inheriting the home and farm that falls to rack and ruin around them.

Porn, gaming and incel culture have disastrously exacerbated this. In the past, in rural Ireland they gathered at the bar (or sat staring into a pint) and in the hallway of the church.

@justanoldhack

I know someone exactly like that. Had an extremely controlling mother, had no freedom in the house, not able to freely have friends over without it being a huge deal.

Couldn't just cook something in the kitchen, room monitored whereas the sister was able to tell mum where to go and had a different experience.
The Df was also so far up his own arse to him parenting was forcing him to be like him.

Person became over whelmed with feelings of hopelessness. Gaming, no self care or motivation.

Somehow met a gf with quite a broad life and he's married now with DC and a defence job and life.
But brother and sister were treated extremely differently and the sister doesn't see it either.

I agree re part time jobs. When I grew up in the 80s, nearly everyone got some kind of part time job, often paper rounds, but also milk rounds, door to door leaflet delivery, Saturday shop jobs, washing up in cafes, cleaning in small boarding houses etc.

Nowadays, there are a lot fewer small/private businesses, and the likes of supermarkets, restaurant chains, hotel chains etc tend not to take on teenagers for a few hours here and there - they use permanent staff or agencies. My son really struggled to find work as a teenager, as did most of his school friends. Cafes/restaurants can't employ children in the kitchen, for example. Supermarkets want older staff due to selling booze or tobacco products, and so it goes on. Too much regulations has really scuppered school aged employment.

I know a few young men like this through mutual friends, seems to be a mix of reliance on a "virtual world" gaming, social media, mental health and parents not sure where to go with it all, as they are technically young adults now 18-25 so it's not as easy as having a child you can turn the PlayStation/WiFi off and place firm boundaries.

We managed to get one out of his hovel of a bedroom at 19 by encouraging him in to the armed forces. He's now out enjoying the world on a naval ship in the Carribbean and seems very happy and enjoying a.rewarding career.

Problem is the "armed forces" is looked down upon by many as not a very liberal career option, but for medium-skilled or unskilled young men and women it can be a game changer. They don't have to stay the full 22 years, they can sign off after 7 but by that time they have built a network of friends, the ability to manage themselves and a willingness to work. Trick is choosing the right regiment/branch.

I think it's just become too easy to live your life in your bedroom talking to people online and getting things delivered to your house.

I can feel like he is purposefully ruining his life as a way to punish my Mum for working, or for girls not going out with him. Despite doing nothing he does act like we are all below him.

My DH had something similar in his twenties and thirties. He did work but went for MW temping and customer service jobs that left him stressed and miserable. I kept telling him he would be happier at work in a job that stretched him and he'd earn more money as well but he never would.

He's since had therapy and admits his mindset back then was that he rejected the values of "normal" society and felt like he had to stay out of it to somehow "show them".

And behind that rejection was childhood bullying. He was bullied for being different (scrawny nerdy kid) by the "normal" kids who had the right clothes, the right interests etc. So his mindset was "normal" society wasn't a good thing, it was a place with screwed up values.

He realises now that "normal society" didn't notice or give a fuck whether he engaged or not, so he didn't "show" anyone anything, the only people who lost out were himself and the people who cared about him or relied on him. He regrets not just knuckling down and getting on with it.

I agree. DS 8 asked me the other day when could he get a job , I said 16 legally and he said he wanted to work in Smyth toys on the weekends selling Lego 🤣 he is 8...

But part of me thought, there probably wouldn't be such an opportunity but I didn't dash his dream of being Smyth Toys Lego ambassador lol

If he is misogynistic, how does he respond to his father?

sorry, I have a very very long history of MH problems - D&A - not convinced that,ks what this is.

I think as a parent you have to step in early on and not let them get ingrained with this behaviour. I know they should be acting as adults but if they are being treated like a child, then the parents need to take on that transitional role which they have failed to execute at an earlier age. Reduce gaming hours, help with CV and job applications or training, insist on at very least volunteering or a PT minimum wage job instead of doing nothing. But all this in a very supportive not accusatory manner. No one can want to spend their life doing nothing.

I would definitely start by getting some help with online addiction if they are gaming and using porn. It will stop them from emotionally connecting in the real world. That lack of empathy accounst for violent outbursts.

The one's whose parents can't support them get up off their arse and get a job. The reason it's mostly men who live like this is that parents rarely molly coddle the daughters as they do the sons. Stop enabling it, they will be forced to be productive.

My dd 19 is like this. She is diagnosed autistic. Doesn't leave her bedroom most of the time and games all day. She did well at school and sixth form but made no friends so has noone to go out with. She would like to go out if she had friends. We've looked for groups locally she could join but with no luck. She's been for a couple of interviews but is very quiet and didn't get the jobs. She struggles in certain environments which narrows down which jobs she can apply for. She also gets very tired so doesn't want early starts etc. Her brother is 16 and got a part time job straight away and has a good social life and doesn't game. They were both raised the same. I worry about her so much!

I think what posters are saying about cannabis use and gaming being risk factors for 'Hikikomori Syndrome' (so to speak) is really interesting.

Looks like being male is also a risk factor. But why, that's the question? And how do we separate out all the cultural / environmental variables from those that relate to male puberty and adolescence, and neurodiversity? Huge job of work.

Here's a link about internet addiction

Could she do some voluntary work? Maybe with you alongside - at a food bank or clothing bank, or visiting a care home to read to old people.

My autistic DS met a fantastic group of friends by volunteering at a soup kitchen when he was 19.

Joes a good time to wean off gaming/internet addiction

Electric costs

Completely agree. I am in my early 30s and since I was 18 I was ready to leave home and did just that. Came home after uni whilst job hunting then as soon as a job moved straight out.

When I was single a few years ago lot of men around my age have seemed very content living at home with their parents with no signs of wanting to move out.

My DP is/was never not at all like this however he has his first child at 19 and his second at 20 so had to move out and take responsibility for his now ex and children I.e. he had that ‘push’.

I remember when we moved into our new house I discovered that every other family in the street (all much older than us) had some sort of male social drop out living at home with mummy and daddy, ranging in age from mid-twenties to late thirties. One was not neurotypical, another was an ex-heroin addict, a third had split up with his partner and come home, a fourth had had a breakdown. The only ones who didn't were the young family next door, and then they invited a lost young male relative to live with them as he couldn't hack life either and he;s been with them ever since. There was one in every house. That was fifteen years ago and I remember thinking - is this some weird new phenomenon that men never leave home?

This is heartbreaking. I have seen quite a bit of it in my friend group with the boys/young adults. My nephew is sadly this way too. I know one girls. Two elements are consistent with all of them.
They had every possible problem consistently removed by their parents from a young age in order to facilliate study.
All of them had fairly unresricted gaming/easy access to internet from a young age.
They never had teens jobs or any responsibility apart from good exam results.

I read recently that Angela Langsbury moved her family lock, stock, and barrel to Ireland in order to get them away from LA and their drug use. That sacrifice saved her children from life long addiction. And even though she could afford it it was costly at the time for her carreer.

Clearly not everyone can do that but the spirit of it is interesting. There is addiction in the mix here, and without tacking the addiction the other larger issues will not get fixed.

Disconect wifi from the home would be a start no? For an alcoholic there would be an alcohol free home. The theraphy friend sounds really smart to get the baby steps in place.
Night into day is really bad, My nephew has a pallor that is deathly. He must not have a grain of Vit D in his body.
This whole thing is a rotten seris of circles with bad leading to worse.
Really stong tough love would be my course of action and many private tears.

Good luck to your mum.

Its 100% gaming and internet.

And parents too chicken shit to say no when they are teenagers.

Watching

I was a bit like this. I hadn't been well and didn't achieve the giddy academic heights of which I was deemed capable. I had awful anxiety, didn't feel I was capable of anything (not helped by a hyper critical dad). I was a computer nerd, but there wasn't the internet then, I read a lot.
What helped was a job centre advisor, I was on benefits, they talked me into trying a basic job in a hotel, phoned up for me and everything. I could work a couple of hours and top up with benefits. It was the launchpad I needed, soon I picked up more hours and then a different job. It's a pity job centres are no longer this type of place and benefits are no longer flexible.

I've also got a male relative in a similar position, he's ND, hasn't coped since leaving school, there just doesn't seem to be any support.

I think both your posts are really interesting. A lot more boys are reared without father figures than before. Most teachers are female. So they don't really get such clear role models as women do.

And I do agree about demonising men. They end up feeling quite lost. I have foudn myself saying to my young adult sons: well you can play the gay card and you can play the SEN card so you don't get villified for being white males but have a minority niche that makes them acceptable. It's so unfair and unhealthy. White males are the most underperforming of all sectors at school in UK these days and have been for some time. .

"White males" are not the most underperforming group in schools. This is just not true. Poverty is an important factor, poor white boys don't do as well as their peers, but other ethnic groups are also in the same position. It's not about being white and male, it's how poverty and ethnicity intersects. Eg children from the traveller community massively underachieve, girls as well as boys.

And white males are not "vilified". Children with SEN aren't "playing a card", for goodness sake. They have actual recognised barriers to learning. It's not a "play".