To sack cleaner for this?

[Katrinawaves]

My husband and I had a mix up today and both left cash out to pay the cleaner. She has taken both lots of cash so double her normal payment for the day. Would I be unreasonable to sack her for this? My husband is saying we should just not pay her next week but I am concerned now about her honesty. What would you do?

You have no idea how much op pays her cleaner. Stop being unkind.

@PrioritiseCalm

You have no idea how much op pays her cleaner. Stop being unkind.

Yes we do, she pays her £50.

Oh my God, I can't believe there are people who think what she did is remotely OK.

Any professional and honest person would NEVER take money left lying around unless they were 100% sure they were entitled to it. If she came across any money in the house that was not her pay, she needed to leave it alone. Even if she thought it might have been a gift or a tip, she absolutely needed to clarify first.

A lot of MNers are so, so weird about cleaners. I think it stems from a sort of middle-class female guilt about a) having someone else do housework for you b) class anxiety.

I'll never forget during the pandemic how some people on here INSISTED that you had to offer long-tern pay to a cleaner that was not coming in to work--not one missed week or whatever, but for months on end. Er, no. I am a freelance worker (not a cleaner, something else), and when you are a freelancer, less-stable pay is just a downside you have to accept, in exchange for the extra flexibility that you enjoy. Nobody bloody offered to pay me anything when projects I'd been hoping to take care of were canceled due to the pandemic!

Yep totally agree with this. There are lots of reasons and reasonable explanations as to how this could have happened and yet rather than asking a very basic question of someone you really have gone off at the deepend. It does feel a little like people are being encouraged to agree with you too rather than you asking for honest opinions. Bottom line is, in the same way you cannot speak to her until next week I can assume same would apply to her and she is not allowed/cannot speak to clients beforehand. You also cannot sack someone that isn't employed by you - you can request the agency don't send that particular person, or terminate your agreement with them but you can't sack her as a person. I do hope that you never make a mistake at work and your boss decides to 'sack' you without so much as discussing it with you first - I think thats almost the way you need to look at it in the initial stages. If it transpires that she has been fraudulent then that is what you pay the agency to deal with and they should take action and rectify.

I pay £40 for 3 hours a week. 3 bed.

£42

This. A bit moral. So she may at worst think by mistake you left too much but took it anyway. Hoping it wasn’t noticed or maybe she happened to need extra at the moment so took it with intention of returning the extra next week. Etc. so what? She’s cleaning your place because you can’t yourself for whatever reason. Obviously if a pattern of taking things develops then tackle. that she’s agreed to employment terms.

Who gets a tip that is double their normal pay?? Wow. I'd love that! Is this a thing?

Read the updates.

What is so unbelievable tbat a poster has a cleaner? Or that tbe cleaner picked up money not for her? Of all tbe made up threads, this is tbe one you call troll on?

@greenteafiend - yea, those threads during pandemic were at shot. It was like cleaners were pid on a pedestal above even sainted nurses and PFBs. I didn’t see anyone suggesting their hairdresser , say, be paid during pandemic

You are being ridiculous

Nobody needs to be empathetic to the reasons someone stole money from their home in your scenario where the cleaner knew she had stolen it and it wasn't her wages. Nobody has to put up with criminal offences, what a misogynist world you like in that OP should understand and be kind. If I'm your scenario this cleaner is stealing money from peoples homes opportunistically , then how many other homes does she steal from- are those people vulnerable adults at risk? It could be a safeguarding of this is a pattern of behaviour (financial abuse with the criminal offence of theft if it's an Older person or disabled adult with care and support needs under CA 2014)...

It worries me when there are apologists for crime (especially when there's clearly a victim and individual harmed as a result )

Because vast majority of hairdressers are on payroll or self employed. So would have benefited from furlough or other assistance.

vast majority of cleaners are cash in hand.

So as a cleaner I would have questioned the overpayment but that’s probably just just me. Just gave a chat with her and advise that you paid for next week as well .

The 'kind' way to deal with it is to ask the cleaner, give them opportunity to return the stolen money or to say ok that's next weeks wages.

If she says anything OP doesn't believe then reporting to her agency and to the police is perfectly appropriate

Yanbu OP, I think the trust has gone too- unless she tells you a story you believe about it being accidental- but there are many PPs detailing why it seems unlikely as SE workers getting cash count their money! Keep good records if they are honest.

OP didn't share this information on this thread

Of course if OP doubts hee DH's version then this is entirely different and a whole different thread and answer but she does not disclose that.

Did you read what I wrote. I do believe she has a cleaner, and this 'error' may have been a deliberate test.

Who wouldn't contact the cleaner directly to discuss it?

She's looking for other miss marples to justify sacking her cleaner.

If there's no trust, she should just do that, she doesn't need mumsnets' permission

@Endlesslysurprised84

Because vast majority of hairdressers are on payroll or self employed. So would have benefited from furlough or other assistance.

vast majority of cleaners are cash in hand.

I don't understand your post. Many hairdressers are self employed and like self employed cleaners declare their earnings whether cash or not to HMRC. They benefited from self employed furlough payments . I know as my SE hairdresser explained process to me it required her applying and evidencing rather than an employer doing it on her behalf.

Unless you are saying it's not fair that cleaners who get paid cash in hand and don't declare all their earnings (ie weren't fully notifying HMRC) then lost out in furlough grants, in which case theirs an obvious self caused reason why.

Hairdressers employed or self employed. Will have received assistance during pandemic either way.

cleaners mainly cash in hand. Why? Many not English and overwhelmed and ignorant but the process of registering with HMRC as self employed. So cash in hand. Nothing during pandemic.

That is the reality.

No, we really don’t

@Tiani4

what a misogynist world

If I wasn't already lost in your rubbish by the time I got to this statement, this completely sealed the deal.

Explain to me. How, even slightly, does misogynist views come into it?!

If anything, your readiness to jump to an identity based argument for no good reason demonstrates the horrible behaviours associated with misogynists...and misandrists...

It's not the reality because you say so! What about agency cleaners, as in this case? There are also people, who may have started out on their own and now built up their business. Thus paying tax.

Transport between several locations per day, materials if the cleaner provides them plus all the costs of running a small service business/self employment - cost of NI, holidays, pensions, book keeping or accounting costs possibly, filing etc, time spent on running the business which are not directly paid - all the things which come provided on top of the hourly rate if you are employed.

My question here is where was the money left? If both lots were together then I get how its happened and wo der how the person leaving it second did not notice. If it was in 2 separate locations say a side table in the hall and on the kitchen counter then yes I would be concerned about her honesty. Was a note with the money to say its hers? If so do you write said note like a receipt stating how much is there which should mean no confusion.

Give the other person in this scenario is a proven liar on an epic scale. To the OP no less. Surely is relevant