Is this benefit fraud?

[ahzixy]

I recently have gotten back together with the father of my kids. We've been seeing each other and he's been staying over at my house. I claim housing benefit.

He doesn't pay towards any of my bills and I don't to his either.

We've always had an agreement between the two of us that he pays £200 per month in child maintenance. That is all he pays to me. In times I have borrowed money like small amounts( but I also do this with my mum and that doesn't tie us financially)

His car is registered at his house, all his bills etc, his work has him as registered at his house.

My name is on my wifi bill, phone bill and I have pre paid metres under my name.

He pays all his council tax etc and gas and electricity which in his one bed flat cost £70 combined but he's paying of a huge debt so he pays £300-400 a month to that.

Things like days out etc or new things for the kids we do go half.

I've also gotten him things through catalog credit like very and Argos since his credit is bad so every other month he will bank transfer money for that but he labels each transfer (I know that doesn't hold much)

We have 3 kids together and he is over often and on his days off takes the kids to and from school.

My close friends would say we are seeing each other but neighbours I exchange polite exchanges would say we are a couple.

I know it's nothing to do with nights spent here it's about finances. I have a lot of proof he pays nothing to my house.

The only thing is I use his Netflix. But before this I used my best friends nextflix too I only changed to his to not lose my place on shows.

The only thing is he's so tight with money even before seeing me he never had wifi. We can prove this also. But to me that looks odd no wifi.

He's also the cheapest person I know with bills. He refuses to have heating on, does washing at his parents house and showers at his gym. Making his bills as low as possible.

My downstairs neighbours told me to my face in April they've reported him living here. Nothing at all came from this so surely it's not fraud??

Is it fraud?? I'm terrified I really don't like this situation and want to get him added asap but we literally couldn't afford to live if he did with his huge debts and until he sells his house.

I can't see how this is fraud at all. You're running two separate households. Your neighbour sounds like a cow. Perhaps report her to the police for harassment 🤷🏻‍♀️

It is .

Please stop this false and dangerous advice. I imagine the three night myth was created by people like you just spouting rubbish. Of course he can't just stay however much he wants as long as he has his own house

@Redkettle if someone stayed over a few nights a week would they not be expected to eat together? Isn't that an odd thing I'd they didn't? Especially with children. How would they prove they eat together?

What was the other facts, did he own a house etc is it very similar to me?

He bought food from takeaway and was part of the evidence . If everyone claimed housing benefit and said they didn't want to live with their partner who worked it would cost a fortune the 3 night rule is a myth. Dodgy advice

That would be because they confessed to sharing finances not because they ate together or he stayed over 6 or 7 nights a week.

@TheFormidableMrsC I plan too she complains if the kids walk in the hall too often.

I've let her complain and have her say. But even my housing officer is thinking there's more too it and said it's harassment if it happens again. My kids and partner are mixed and she even said she didn't want to say it but she can't see what else it could be at this point.

It's crazy too because her son screams all day long on Xbox and my neighbours told me to complain and said they'd do it too yet I said not to because it's just petty and silly. Her son is allowed to have fun on Xbox.

Me and ex each paid for food all the time but he had his own home. That's all they need to show.

People can say this all they like my client investigates due to him sharing family life and one of the things brought up was eating together I don't care if its believed, its true

• was investigated

OP you are adamant you are doing nothing wrong so once again, stop posting on here and just phone DWP!

You've had many people tell you that you're likely to be deemed living together, including those who work for DWP telling you that you are on very thin ice.

Let's look at the facts:

You are in a relationship with the father of your children
He stays with you more often than not, including it would appear, a week at a time.
He eats with you, you cook his food
You spend time together as a family
Your finances are combined, none of this 'oh but he pays me maintenance' rubbish. The father of your children who uses YOUR house, gas, electric, water, food etc etc is NOT paying you maintenance, he's paying a contribution to his living there.
He OWNS another property but keeps his bills low by using the gas and electric of the gym and his parents
Regardless of how you dress if up, your previous post does not read as a single parent who does not live with her OH

As a side, I'm willing to bet you're claiming single person council tax too.

You need to be careful OP. What do you think benefits for single parents are for?

Think of it is this way. I own my house with my OH, if I move to social housing and claim maximum benefits for our children and he just 'stays with me often' but we are still in a relationship, do you think I should be able to claim as a single person?

@Redkettle is there more to the story than just a take away? What were the other facts of the case

My friends and I have catch up and we all buy take aways? They don't live with me or me with them.

Also in most "seeing" relationships isn't it normal to have take aways?

Either way I'm going to phone and say I'm so sorry I never knew etc. at this point it's whether I'll pay back logs etc. would I be seen as having lived with him in your opinion?

Absolutely 100 per cent correct

Yes actually. They followed him to the takeaway. Then they visited the home and found his shoes and some clothes. That sealed it

@Redkettle what do you work as? Are you DWP?

Is your advice the same then when I call up and say they will charge me for the time he was here? If I'm seen as him living here and no further charges? No court etc. no stopping benefits? Purely just you made a mistake you will have to pay us back?

I can't be the only person to have made this mistake.

@Redkettle what was the other facts of this?

How would she have not known she was under investigation I thought they had to say if they are investigating you?

Did they give her a compliance call and she denied him staying there? That was advice I was given if I get that call be super honest and let them say if he lives with me or if they don't.

Also the DWP worker who said I was on thin ice also said in her opinion she would say he doesn't live here but to say anyway to avoid this stress I feel now. But obviously she can't tell me what another worker could think (through messages before I'm accused of lying)

I advise people on benefits and support them when they get accused . I had another client who got investigated because she said she lived alone and they drove past her house at 6am and her partners car was there . I'm not saying it to be a dick, but just telling the truth. The 3 night thing is bullshit. It's whether you share family life.

@Autumndays123

This all makes sense to me and I'm not arguing it but people who work at the DWP replied and said they personally would say he doesn't.

I fully get your point and agree

But he is paying the amount of child maintenance agreed upon by child maintenance it's all done through them jsut he sends it rather than through their system.

If I was just seeing a guy who wasn't the father of my kids would I be doing wrong too? I was told by DWP I'm allowed a relationship.

I truly never believed I was doing something wrong and I'm trying to right it.

@Redkettle I don't think you saying it to be a dick and I'm thankful for your replies.

In my situation what is your advice?

Do you see me as only paying back over payments I didn't mean to take or will it be court etc?

If I say to them I didn't realise only staying so many days was an offence can I right it, will they let me? How bad will the consequences be?

Is my situation the same as there's? I've not been investigated - if I have it didn't come back as anything and if it's to come hopefully I report this on Monday in time,
With when he's been seeing me since. Is that all fine?

I did say something along those lines, and it's he ;)

What I did say was that if you had a compliance call, and you denied the allegation, there would be enough evidence to support that denial such as the fact you can prove he has another property in his name etc. It would all depend on how you handled yourself during the call.

I can't go into too many details on here about how we investigate, but LT is one of the hardest things to prove, in the call we are hoping that the alleged will confess and say that yes the allegation is correct, however with a flat out denial it would be down to the individual officer whether to pursue it anymore or close the case.

I also answered about court and stopping benefits via PM. Court would normally be reserved for people who are alleged to be fraudulent to the tune of thousands, in your case if April was the correct date it would most likely not meet the threshold for prosecution, and would be dealt with "in-house"

@Redkettle the person who said they lived alone was this after a compliance call?

Someone also told me paper trails are stronger than seeing him outside the house. Since there's many explanations he could work nights the kids could get up at 6 and he wants to be there for that.

This actually happen to my friend from school in the 2000s. They saw her dads car outside hee mums house and obviously he didn't live there he just liked walking her to school and said that. Case was dropped when they saw his paper trail. Their next step was getting him done for child maintenance- which actually worked.

I feel a lot of info is being repeated now, the only way you are going to right it is by calling and being honest, and that is each benefit you are claiming, not just one as they come from different departments.

It is a very muddy situation, and I will echo other posters, especially after seeing your other post from last night, that you should just kick him out, take this as a bit of a wake up call and work on yourself for a while. Is he really worth this stress and aggro? From your other thread I think that would be a big fat no

Mumsnet is terrible for advice on benefits.

Firstly there are many people that love a benefit bashing thread; they've made their mind up that you're lying and cheating the system after seeing your thread title and will fall over themselves to shout "gotcha", even resorting to trawling through old threads.

Secondly all the advice is unsolicited, who knows who works for the DWP or has a best friend/ neighbour/second cousin that works for the fraud department. And then there's the drama- you'll get a criminal record, someone knows someone who got "done" over a takeaway...maybe there are undercover surveillance outside your house...(There really won't be)

It's a nightmare to get through to the DWP on the phone. I strongly advise getting in touch with your local citizen's advice bureau and going through all the criteria on the DWP website.

@Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs sorry I shouldn't have assumed.

The thing is I will be very honest and admit everything by doing so is that seen as living with me?

Also there's no complaint that I know of. So it would be me enquiring if he's living with me and if he is, then I will be asking to add him if not I will ask a note is taking of my call?

I've said to you before is he a low earner? He was on 12,000 before so i imagine he won't have been expect to contribute much?
Then he was 20,000 I'd expect him to have been asked to contribute from that more? Will this amount to thousands? By thousands what do you mean? 1 or double digits?

Would I also since I've phoned to say be considered for court if the amount by some way was that high even if I say I really didn't know?

@Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs

But that's my issue now too is if he just leaves, will I still be charged

I feel my only safe way out of this no court etc is by adding him?

Maybe I'm being silly with that, or if I upset him will he report me for him staying here. I don't know I just think I'm safest to report him here, pay the back log and be done with this. If he leaves after a month then good that can't say I didn't tell the truth etc.