Is this benefit fraud?

[ahzixy]

I recently have gotten back together with the father of my kids. We've been seeing each other and he's been staying over at my house. I claim housing benefit.

He doesn't pay towards any of my bills and I don't to his either.

We've always had an agreement between the two of us that he pays £200 per month in child maintenance. That is all he pays to me. In times I have borrowed money like small amounts( but I also do this with my mum and that doesn't tie us financially)

His car is registered at his house, all his bills etc, his work has him as registered at his house.

My name is on my wifi bill, phone bill and I have pre paid metres under my name.

He pays all his council tax etc and gas and electricity which in his one bed flat cost £70 combined but he's paying of a huge debt so he pays £300-400 a month to that.

Things like days out etc or new things for the kids we do go half.

I've also gotten him things through catalog credit like very and Argos since his credit is bad so every other month he will bank transfer money for that but he labels each transfer (I know that doesn't hold much)

We have 3 kids together and he is over often and on his days off takes the kids to and from school.

My close friends would say we are seeing each other but neighbours I exchange polite exchanges would say we are a couple.

I know it's nothing to do with nights spent here it's about finances. I have a lot of proof he pays nothing to my house.

The only thing is I use his Netflix. But before this I used my best friends nextflix too I only changed to his to not lose my place on shows.

The only thing is he's so tight with money even before seeing me he never had wifi. We can prove this also. But to me that looks odd no wifi.

He's also the cheapest person I know with bills. He refuses to have heating on, does washing at his parents house and showers at his gym. Making his bills as low as possible.

My downstairs neighbours told me to my face in April they've reported him living here. Nothing at all came from this so surely it's not fraud??

Is it fraud?? I'm terrified I really don't like this situation and want to get him added asap but we literally couldn't afford to live if he did with his huge debts and until he sells his house.

@rainbowandglitter I've not asked this but a few people have said this

DWP FI here.

There is a huge amount of nonsense being spouted here. LTAHW (as it's known - Living together as husband and wife) is a complex investigation made up of several different components to form an overall picture.

In deciding if a benefit claimant is committing this fraud, it helps if you can get your head around why this is an offence.

The state pay an amount of money legislated by govt each year to support individuals and families in a variety of circumstances. If those circumstances change and that change is not reported, then it is likely the claim is fraudulent.

A claim as a single parent is just that.

Is this single parent really a single parent. On the face of it I would say no. She is clearly living with the father of her children. The fact that he is away for work some weeks is irrelevant. OP doesn't say he goes back and stays at home. In fact she said ' he was off last week so stayed here' but has gone away for work now. She also says she he takes the kids to school. This behaviour alone would not be sufficient. The fact that he keeps his own place and pays bills on it is irrelevant. We would look at the bills on that property as it would show he is virtually absent.

Keeping another property is a common ruse to try and prove a couple is not LTAHW. It does not prevent a conviction.

Above all else it is about household finances of the benefit recipient. Does this OP have the same amount of money to live on as a single parent next door with no partner on the scene. The answer is simply no. The OP receives both CM (legitimate) but additional payments from her partner into her account over and above the CM. This is income not available to a SP with no partner.

Add to that a record of surveillance which is a very common process in LTAHW. The payments. The observations of neighbours. (We take statements asking them for their understanding of your relationship and frequency of staying) and I would believe that I would secure a conviction.

In answer to the question about being investigated if you reported the change now. Extremely doubtful. We have an overwhelming caseload at the moment and more cost effective to go after the live cases. We would also not be able to get surveillance authorised as you have notified us that he is there. So literally nothing for us to see.

One last question ahzixy You say this is about Housing Benefit. However you also say you are home all day with a 2 year old. and 2 other kids. I am assuming that you also claim income support if not working at all or Tax Credits if you are. You need to notify these benefits too. Then you will move to Universal Credit to top up your partners (and yours if you have one) income.

If he was to stop staying overnight am I still in trouble?

Is the only way to save a conviction if he's added to the claim?

We can't afford to pay both rent and mortgage and we need time for him to sort his house to sell it

If he stops staying over now - neighbours being asked will still think he stays even if he stops. Also my neighbour who stalks me will report this too.

What can I do? I really don't know what I can do to sort this out??

If he himself refuses to be added and therefore I break things off with him will I still be charged for the months he's stayed over

Is literally the only thing to save this add him to my claim even though he might say no to this?

Will I still be charged and benefits stopped by him leaving by the time someone investigates?

@Icantthinkwhat
The OP receives both CM (legitimate) but additional payments from her partner into her account over and above the CM

Would the CM be classed as CM though seeing as they are a couple? If it was counted as 'legitamate' then surely all anyone would have to do is say all the payments to their partner were CM

For it to be classed as CM surely they can't be a couple.

(I've no clue about benefits -I'm just curious how they work)

@anzuu taking a step back from Theres why would you even be with a man who would allow you to get into trouble for his own financial gain ?

Its quite simply not your problem that he needs to get on with selling his assets again for his own financial gain you will never see a penny of that. But he’s happy enough for you to put your neck on the chopping block ? That doesn’t seem very loving behaviour. And if it did come to courts and convictions I would be making sure that you highlighted that because it’s actually low-level financial abuse.

That is still an independent income duh

You have separate finances and he is keeping another property, you are not committing fraud. It may appear to others that you are though but while he has the flat, you are fine.

I don't think it's fraud. But the people to ask are the dwp. Ring them.

Also dump him. He's a cheapskate.

I can hear how worried you are about this. I think it would be best if you get impartial advice on whether your HB claim is or was fraudulent and act on that advice. I would err on the side of caution - it would be you who was convicted, not your home owning, large debt accruing partner. I can't help thinking he's making a mug of you and the taxpayer.

What would happen if we all did it? Our DH’s rent a flat they don’t live in and we claim benefits as a single mother.

For fucks sake what a ridiculous comment.

Try to engage your brain before posting again.

What would happen?

Well the country could not afford that to start with!

If he stays more than 4 nights a week, he is considered to be living there. That is what the council told my stepmother regarding my father staying over.

I'm glad someone else thinks this. Some of the details are slightly different, but it is written in a very similar way and honestly sounds like the same op.

This is a myth.

It's unlikely if he's gone by then. The important thing is to get rid asap.

Stay as you are (essentially dating) if your plans are to live as a couple when his debts are repaid and he sells his property. Work out a timeline for this and make sure this is a future he's committing to.

The only thing you need to stop is him transferring money into your account. Child maintenance is fine, anything else No.

Stop buying him stuff from Argos, Very etc on credit and allowing him to pay you back. If he can't afford to buy something out of his wages he can't have it.

Just don't have money going from his account into yours (apart from CM). There aren't grounds for fraud. You are not benefiting financially from him, he's not contributing to housing or living costs.

Make it clear to him that you need to sit down and plan how you can live as a family and how to make that financially viable.

He's benefiting ( financially) from your current arrangement and you're not.

I'm sorry your neighbours sound like arseholes, don't have anything to do with them. Ignore their threats, they don't know your circumstances.x

The test is whether you share finances and live as a family. It seems you do and yes, you are likely to get convicted of benefit fraud. I'm not making a moral judgement on you but I would not claim benefits under your circumstances as I would not want to get in trouble.

If you want to claim benefits then it's okay to take child maintenance informally, if no one knows about it it's neither here nor there. But he should stop having his name down for bills or stuff at your home. He should change them to his own address.

What a load of drivel, "informal" child maintenance?? CM does not count towards income for benefit purposes at all so doesnt need to be informal.

You say you wouldnt want to get into trouble, then advocate someone receiving money that no one knows about.

Maybe get more informed before scaremongering

A work Colleague got caught. From memory, the DWP looked at everything and things like her DP paying for her hair cut were deemed to tie them together as a couple. Because of that, I'd be really careful that you only pay for things for the kids and not for each other. And obviously maintain your bills and households separately.

In colleague's sad case she was in a controlling relationship with a cock lodger. The bastard led to her getting a suspended prison sentence.

She said the bills were at his address though.

What are you on about? Nothing I said was false. That is the test. If no one knows about money how would she get in trouble? The bills cannot be at her address, this will get her in lots of trouble.

Quick question, the more you explain, the more it sounds like you are transitioning to live together proper.

My only thought is why would you do that with someone you think would refuse to do things legitimately so you don’t get into trouble?

What am I on about?

You are advocating keeping something under the table that doesn't need to be kept a secret. What next? Cash in hand earnings?

If you wouldn't want to get into trouble then why say things like "keep the money a secret". You don't think DWP can look at things like bank accounts and credit reports?

That is not "the test", there are many things that get looked at not just finances.

CM does not count as income when it comes to benefits, so no need to hide it.