Page 7 | Is this benefit fraud?

ahzixy · 2022-10-21T17:03:37+00:00

I recently have gotten back together with the father of my kids. We've been seeing each other and he's been staying over at my house. I claim housing benefit. He doesn't pay towards any of my bills and I don't to his either. We've always had an agreement between the two of us that he pays £200 per month in child maintenance. That is all he pays to me. In times I have borrowed money like small amounts( but I also do this with my mum and that doesn't tie us financially) His car is registered at his house, all his bills etc, his work has him as registered at his house. My name is on my wifi bill, phone bill and I have pre paid metres under my name. He pays all his council tax etc and gas and electricity which in his one bed flat cost £70 combined but he's paying of a huge debt so he pays £300-400 a month to that. Things like days out etc or new things for the kids we do go half. I've also gotten him things through catalog credit like very and Argos since his credit is bad so every other month he will bank transfer money for that but he labels each transfer (I know that doesn't hold much) We have 3 kids together and he is over often and on his days off takes the kids to and from school. My close friends would say we are seeing each other but neighbours I exchange polite exchanges would say we are a couple. I know it's nothing to do with nights spent here it's about finances. I have a lot of proof he pays nothing to my house. The only thing is I use his Netflix. But before this I used my best friends nextflix too I only changed to his to not lose my place on shows. The only thing is he's so tight with money even before seeing me he never had wifi. We can prove this also. But to me that looks odd no wifi. He's also the cheapest person I know with bills. He refuses to have heating on, does washing at his parents house and showers at his gym. Making his bills as low as possible. My downstairs neighbours told me to my face in April they've reported him living here. Nothing at all came from this so surely it's not fraud?? Is it fraud?? I'm terrified I really don't like this situation and want to get him added asap but we literally couldn't afford to live if he did with his huge debts and until he sells his house.

Cuck00soup · 22/10/2022 11:21

The partners low bills at "his" address is going to look fishy.

mavismorpoth · 22/10/2022 11:26

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 11:12

What am I on about?

You are advocating keeping something under the table that doesn't need to be kept a secret. What next? Cash in hand earnings?

If you wouldn't want to get into trouble then why say things like "keep the money a secret". You don't think DWP can look at things like bank accounts and credit reports?

That is not "the test", there are many things that get looked at not just finances.

CM does not count as income when it comes to benefits, so no need to hide it.

Show quote history

I didn't tell her to keep anything secret (advice), I stated that if no one knows about it she is unable to get in trouble for it (fact).

TootMootZoot · 22/10/2022 11:29

The OPs called the £200 CHILD MAINTENANCE and posters keep calling it child maintenance but is it actually classed as that?? The OP has confirmed they are a couple so can anyone who actually knows confirm whether or not it counts as child maintenance. It reads to me like it only counts as child maintenance when the couple are separated or when they have never been a couple.

Seems like a massive loop hole if it does.

Faultymain5 · 22/10/2022 11:32

I’m not sure paying towards his children is a loophole. Let’s say £200 is rental income for the nights he stays there. Then what does he pay towards his children? Tbf £200 pm is getting off lightly. But as my sister gets nothing from her ex, maybe it’s a lot.

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 11:33

Mavis have you misread the op? They are not sharing finances, he has no bills in his name attached to her address and child maintenance payments have no bearing on eligibility for housing benefit.

knittingaddict · 22/10/2022 11:36

TootMootZoot · 22/10/2022 11:29

The OPs called the £200 CHILD MAINTENANCE and posters keep calling it child maintenance but is it actually classed as that?? The OP has confirmed they are a couple so can anyone who actually knows confirm whether or not it counts as child maintenance. It reads to me like it only counts as child maintenance when the couple are separated or when they have never been a couple.

Seems like a massive loop hole if it does.

It's not child maintenance if they are a couple, which they are.

Faultymain5 if they are spending a lot of time together then he is there to buy food and clothes and anything else the children need directly.

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 11:36

OP, it might be wise to get this thread deleted or you will have to sit through the usual replies from people who think they know what they are talking about which is just going to make you worry more, it happens all the time on this place where armchair experts think they know the rules of things inside out.

Happens in benefit threads and also legal threads, never seen so many fraud investigators and lawyers in one place hmmmmm

Faultymain5 · 22/10/2022 11:41

Op hasn’t said he did with all her updates so far.

Karatema · 22/10/2022 11:42

I have a friend who works for DWP, they have people whose job is to watch people who are suspected of cheating the system. I don't know the rules but make sure you do! If someone is reporting you then you are on a watch list. Perhaps not the first time you are reported but, if it continues, then they will watch your house.

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 11:43

Yeah I would advise talking to the citizens advice bureau for impartial advice. You can do that online (live chat) or in person.

Your current set up is not classed as living as a couple. You have enough proof that his main residence is elsewhere, even if his bills are low on his flat.

Even if a couple have split up and are still living together, the dwp don’t class that as living as a couple and they are treated as single claimants.

knittingaddict · 22/10/2022 11:45

Faultymain5 · 22/10/2022 11:41

Op hasn’t said he did with all her updates so far.

Well she wouldn't say would she as it makes it sound like they are an enmeshed couple. Honestly I have no idea, but it has triggered an investigation and the fact that the children are his and they were presumably in a long term relationship doesn't help the op's argument that they aren't a couple living together most of the time.

Faultymain5 · 22/10/2022 11:52

She’s said everything else. I haven’t seen where she said an investigation was triggered. She didn’t seem to know. Has that changed? She only mentioned the neighbour claimed to report her. Maybe I’ve misread.

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:06

The DWP will inform a claimant if they are being investigated and they will suspend payments whilst they investigate.

There is no investigation if DWP haven’t taken that initial step in the process.

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 12:12

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:06

The DWP will inform a claimant if they are being investigated and they will suspend payments whilst they investigate.

There is no investigation if DWP haven’t taken that initial step in the process.

That is so wrong I dont know where to start.

The first part of the investigation is a letter to say there will be an interview. Payments are not suspended then at all, imagine the chaos if that were the case, it would be so easy for people to make malicious allegations to get peoples payments stopped.

Payments continue until either something comes to light in the interview that would put the claim in doubt, or the claimant fails to return the required evidence within the allotted time, normally 14 days.

I can't say anymore about how a fraud investigation is conducted, however your post is so far from the mark

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:27

I agree with you, there is no investigation if the claimant hasn’t been informed/interviewed that was my point.

Of course payments aren’t suspended on the basis of a (malicious) call. I didn’t say they would be? Perhaps my wording was misleading.

Some posters seem to be assuming that an investigation was triggered in April when op’s neighbour said they’d reported them. I was pointing out that was nonsense.

Payments can be suspended if the DWP have later evidence of fraud (eg bank statements showing an increase in undeclared income) even if they haven’t reached a final decision.

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:29

See attached

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 12:32

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:27

I agree with you, there is no investigation if the claimant hasn’t been informed/interviewed that was my point.

Of course payments aren’t suspended on the basis of a (malicious) call. I didn’t say they would be? Perhaps my wording was misleading.

Some posters seem to be assuming that an investigation was triggered in April when op’s neighbour said they’d reported them. I was pointing out that was nonsense.

Payments can be suspended if the DWP have later evidence of fraud (eg bank statements showing an increase in undeclared income) even if they haven’t reached a final decision.

Yes, I get what you mean now, I initially read it as we suspend as soon as the allegation comes in and the letter for interview is sent. Payments are only suspended if a claimant fails to attend or fails to provide requested evidence, or as you say something that puts the claim in doubt like evidence of increased income/capital.

You're right in that an investigation will not have started in April, the allegation would be logged and then dished out to a Compliance Officer in due course. The CO will look at it and then decide themselves if this is something to investigate, and for a LT case it would require at least a compliance interview at the very least.

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:43

The whole “living as a couple” is a minefield to define even for DWP staff.
I’m probably not helping either!

There is a lot of official information online on DWP websites to help op and the Citizens Advice bureau is usually good at helping navigate the legalities.

I’m sure op is completely confused by all the conflicting advice on here and probably none the wiser. 😬

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 12:46

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 12:43

The whole “living as a couple” is a minefield to define even for DWP staff.
I’m probably not helping either!

There is a lot of official information online on DWP websites to help op and the Citizens Advice bureau is usually good at helping navigate the legalities.

I’m sure op is completely confused by all the conflicting advice on here and probably none the wiser. 😬

That bit I do agree with totally, it is a minefield, its very hard to prove and it takes a lot of resources, even more so when it comes from an allegation as opposed to one of the other sources we have

HeirOfSlytherin · 22/10/2022 14:21

Oh gosh, I really haven't ever given this much thought but my circumstances aren't a million mile away from OP's. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. My DP has his own rented flat. We have been together 6 years. We spend lots of time together and have worked on trying to blend families but this has proven very difficult due to his ex making contact with their child incredibly difficult. We have had 2 steps forward, 1 giant step backwards all along the way. She has made malicious allegations against my children, so blending households has not been my priority. DP has spent 6 years in and out of court on repeat. We needed to keep separate households so he had a way out easily. I own my house, so him moving in wasn't on the cards. He has been at university and changed careers in the time I've known him which I wasn't prepared to financially support at the expense of my own children which I thought was the right thing to do by them. We don't want to do anything other than spend time together until his ex stops her dick behaviour, and until we are in a position to consider buying a house together as my house isn't big enough for us all.
We have no joint finances whatsoever, no joint children. We could separate tomorrow and nothing would change. He does have a few bits of his crap here, he helps me now and then with taking my children to a club (I drop off, sometimes he will do the pick up for me). He doesn't have anything to do with my childrens school. Doesn't pick up, doesn't collect from childcare. My children don't refer to him as dad despite their own father having zero to do with them (my kids were 1 and 3 when we got together and his was 1). We have had 2 holidays together, one with my kids, one with his and my kids. We have never even sent money to one another by bank transfer or anything as there has been no need to. We have obviously gone on days out and stuff, and sometimes I've paid, sometimes he has paid (but mostly me as I earn more and am more financially comfortable thanks to his retraining). And sometimes we have both paid for our respective children. It has just depended on what we decide at the time. We are about to go out now with 1 of mine and his child and we will both pay our respective costs as it will be easiest that way on this occasion. Obviously all our families know we are a couple and know we spend lots of time together and are hoping for more in time. They would all say they know he has his own flat.
But I would never say we live together. We don't. We want to. But it isn't an option. So are we doing anything wrong by not being in a position to live together? I just claim tax credits as a working parent. One of my DS's has a disability, and I have childcare costs, hence why I'm eligible for financial assistance. I'm no better off than any other single parent in my situation as my partner isn't paying my bills, no one is giving me money other than the father of my children who pays maintenance because it is deducted from his earnings . There are no joint financial links whatsoever. But we spend lots of time together.
So are we wrong? I don't want to risk my childrens financial security, but I should be able to have a relationship? Surely?

Autumndays123 · 22/10/2022 14:30

SmileyClare · 22/10/2022 11:33

Mavis have you misread the op? They are not sharing finances, he has no bills in his name attached to her address and child maintenance payments have no bearing on eligibility for housing benefit.

Except of course that she's receiving 'child maintenance ' from the father of her children who sleeps back to back nights in her house when he's not working away? Sounds like sharing finances to me

Allthegoodnamesaregoneffs · 22/10/2022 14:36

HeirOfSlytherin · 22/10/2022 14:21

Oh gosh, I really haven't ever given this much thought but my circumstances aren't a million mile away from OP's. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. My DP has his own rented flat. We have been together 6 years. We spend lots of time together and have worked on trying to blend families but this has proven very difficult due to his ex making contact with their child incredibly difficult. We have had 2 steps forward, 1 giant step backwards all along the way. She has made malicious allegations against my children, so blending households has not been my priority. DP has spent 6 years in and out of court on repeat. We needed to keep separate households so he had a way out easily. I own my house, so him moving in wasn't on the cards. He has been at university and changed careers in the time I've known him which I wasn't prepared to financially support at the expense of my own children which I thought was the right thing to do by them. We don't want to do anything other than spend time together until his ex stops her dick behaviour, and until we are in a position to consider buying a house together as my house isn't big enough for us all.
We have no joint finances whatsoever, no joint children. We could separate tomorrow and nothing would change. He does have a few bits of his crap here, he helps me now and then with taking my children to a club (I drop off, sometimes he will do the pick up for me). He doesn't have anything to do with my childrens school. Doesn't pick up, doesn't collect from childcare. My children don't refer to him as dad despite their own father having zero to do with them (my kids were 1 and 3 when we got together and his was 1). We have had 2 holidays together, one with my kids, one with his and my kids. We have never even sent money to one another by bank transfer or anything as there has been no need to. We have obviously gone on days out and stuff, and sometimes I've paid, sometimes he has paid (but mostly me as I earn more and am more financially comfortable thanks to his retraining). And sometimes we have both paid for our respective children. It has just depended on what we decide at the time. We are about to go out now with 1 of mine and his child and we will both pay our respective costs as it will be easiest that way on this occasion. Obviously all our families know we are a couple and know we spend lots of time together and are hoping for more in time. They would all say they know he has his own flat.
But I would never say we live together. We don't. We want to. But it isn't an option. So are we doing anything wrong by not being in a position to live together? I just claim tax credits as a working parent. One of my DS's has a disability, and I have childcare costs, hence why I'm eligible for financial assistance. I'm no better off than any other single parent in my situation as my partner isn't paying my bills, no one is giving me money other than the father of my children who pays maintenance because it is deducted from his earnings . There are no joint financial links whatsoever. But we spend lots of time together.
So are we wrong? I don't want to risk my childrens financial security, but I should be able to have a relationship? Surely?

There's nothing wrong with that, we are not yet at the stage dwp prevent people being in a relationship

liveforsummer · 22/10/2022 14:43

Fuwari · 21/10/2022 18:11

The person who will end up in Court for benefit fraud is you, not him. Think about that for a moment. It doesn’t matter that he isn’t paying into your home. It’s whether he should be. That’s what they’ll look at. Do you want to risk a criminal record? I wouldn’t.

Nonsense- he stays to have contact with his dc. That's all they need to know. He can prove that as has his own private address not just a parents etc. Not like anyone is benefitting from the situation when both paying their own bills. Better all round if they don't rush back in to living together only to discover that was a mistake

Autumndays123 · 22/10/2022 14:49

HeirOfSlytherin · 22/10/2022 14:21

Oh gosh, I really haven't ever given this much thought but my circumstances aren't a million mile away from OP's. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. My DP has his own rented flat. We have been together 6 years. We spend lots of time together and have worked on trying to blend families but this has proven very difficult due to his ex making contact with their child incredibly difficult. We have had 2 steps forward, 1 giant step backwards all along the way. She has made malicious allegations against my children, so blending households has not been my priority. DP has spent 6 years in and out of court on repeat. We needed to keep separate households so he had a way out easily. I own my house, so him moving in wasn't on the cards. He has been at university and changed careers in the time I've known him which I wasn't prepared to financially support at the expense of my own children which I thought was the right thing to do by them. We don't want to do anything other than spend time together until his ex stops her dick behaviour, and until we are in a position to consider buying a house together as my house isn't big enough for us all.
We have no joint finances whatsoever, no joint children. We could separate tomorrow and nothing would change. He does have a few bits of his crap here, he helps me now and then with taking my children to a club (I drop off, sometimes he will do the pick up for me). He doesn't have anything to do with my childrens school. Doesn't pick up, doesn't collect from childcare. My children don't refer to him as dad despite their own father having zero to do with them (my kids were 1 and 3 when we got together and his was 1). We have had 2 holidays together, one with my kids, one with his and my kids. We have never even sent money to one another by bank transfer or anything as there has been no need to. We have obviously gone on days out and stuff, and sometimes I've paid, sometimes he has paid (but mostly me as I earn more and am more financially comfortable thanks to his retraining). And sometimes we have both paid for our respective children. It has just depended on what we decide at the time. We are about to go out now with 1 of mine and his child and we will both pay our respective costs as it will be easiest that way on this occasion. Obviously all our families know we are a couple and know we spend lots of time together and are hoping for more in time. They would all say they know he has his own flat.
But I would never say we live together. We don't. We want to. But it isn't an option. So are we doing anything wrong by not being in a position to live together? I just claim tax credits as a working parent. One of my DS's has a disability, and I have childcare costs, hence why I'm eligible for financial assistance. I'm no better off than any other single parent in my situation as my partner isn't paying my bills, no one is giving me money other than the father of my children who pays maintenance because it is deducted from his earnings . There are no joint financial links whatsoever. But we spend lots of time together.
So are we wrong? I don't want to risk my childrens financial security, but I should be able to have a relationship? Surely?

......so nothing like the OP then

liveforsummer · 22/10/2022 14:49

Jessiesthedog · 21/10/2022 23:21

Housing benefit is the one that always catches people out it’s almost as if the Dwp arent that bothered or have bigger fish to fry due to being under HMRC now but my goodness the councils are good !
my friend got accused of housing benefit fraud and she was basically offered the option of going to court or accepting a £3000 fine but her solicitor advised her to accept the fine on the basis that once you’re in front of a judge God knows what could happen on the day and of course she would have a criminal record. Her crime ? The housing benefit people lost documentation that they had signed for when she sent it recorded delivery.

Housing benefit doesn't exist for the vast majority anymore for anyone claiming in the last few years it's included in UC from dwp