To expect a non-shouting house?

[LorraineJelly]

DS is 3. Being assessed for ASD next week. He gets rages and does things like pull all the books off the shelves. It seems to be getting better though. Less frequent. He always apologises and i always get him to clears up things afterwards.

He always shares with his younger sister etc. He's affectionate. He hates raging. He gets so upset afterwards and just clings to me shaking.

Anyway, DH has started shouting at DS. When DS is having a meltdown, I try to calm it down but I do kind of accept things are gonna get messy and I know we will tidy it up again afterwards.

DH shouts at DS when he's in meltdown. DH slams doors. Shouts fucking hell, other swear words. He shouted this morning as DS "I don't like you young boy". He also grabbed him a couple of times. I stepped in this morning.

DH says I don't "do fucking anything". And says when a boy is pulling books off the shelves or pushing things over...it's totally reasonable to bloody shout at him.

Any views? I think parents should avoid shouting at kids this young if at all possible. I'm trying to teach DS not to shout and scream.

I have a 12yr old with ASD and other SEND. Following her diagnosis, we had a parenting course, which was super helpful in dealing with meltdowns and other issues. Would your dh be able to do something like this? Google the bucket model for meltdowns to help explain and show him. Sometimes having a set of strategies helps you (in this case your dh) feel more in control and so less reactive.

Your description of being calm with your ds reminds me of us in the mornings. Dd2 hates cross voices or being hurried. If you saw me getting her ready for school, you would think we had all the time in the world. But if I become impatient, she gets stressed, refuses to move and possibly has a meltdown.

Disgusting way to talk to a child & shouting etc is unforgivable, it makes the shouter look like the ogre, the child will be scared. We always got down to child’s height & told her what she was doing was unacceptable & gently asked why she wanted to do what she did, & asked her how we could together resolve the outburst

I think you learn very quickly if you have a child with ASD that they need a lot of emotional space - you can’t take that space up yourself. They need total calm and a safe haven. It’s not an easy learning curve though.

Does your husband understand ASD?
would he be willing to do a parenting course or something to understand why your son is acting in certain ways, and how he can support him?

Shouting at someone with asd or adhd (or any situation really) never ever helps, if anything is escalated and elongates the meltdown.

A Dad who can’t handle a temper tantrum is highly unlikely to want 50/50,

Staying with a man who is coming across as a bully to a young child with issues isn’t the answer.

Does your DH have any traits himself? I find that my DH deals really badly with our ND DD when she exhibits the same behaviours that he himself does.

"Do you not care that DS is a behaving like a monster??"

That is a massive red flag for me.

Your DH doesn’t understand your child’s issues, and isn’t bothering to learn about them.

Labelling a young child in distress as a monster is nasty and cold hearted.

Gosh he sounds like a real bully to you as well as your little boy.

By the way (outside of your ur DH disgusting behaviour) have you considered moving your DS to a safe space during his meltdowns? I wouldn’t shout at him but I also wouldn’t follow him around as he trashes the place gently saying ‘no, don’t do that, calm down’ because that’s pointless. He is still doing it and it could be making him feel more harassed. We used to move my son to under the stairs. Which in retrospect sounds a bit mean but it wasn’t like a Harry Potter cupboard! It was just a space in the hallway with cushions, beanbag, his calm basket with sensory toys and things etc. That became his space to chill out. Now he has a corner of his bedroom which is his relaxing place. Which I think is better than walking behind him as he throws all the books and saying don’t do that don’t do that.

I think a parenting course (preferably targetted at ASD) would be a very good idea - it sounds like your husband does not know how to handle the meltdowns. He'll find it much easier to learn from someone with some expertise/authority, and there will probably be some extra tips for you as well.

If he can't get it sorted, there's a problem, but at the moment it may just be that he needs some strategies.

Men usually struggle more to struggle to accept that their sons are not NT. However, that is no excuse at all for husband’s behaviour towards your son. You need to sit him down, when things are calm, and talk to him about the impact of his behaviour.

I believe there should be an element of discipline to try and gauge where they are and learn more about them because NT 3 years olds can have behavioural issues too that can be addressed through discipline.

It’s tricky, OP. Your DS is only going to get bigger and you want him as tall lad pulling down your bookshelves or using heavier objects that can hurt him or are expensive to replace. (Of course we hope he stops the meltdowns before then but what they don’t). While the children are young and they are able to, some parents usually remove the child into a safe space and as they get older, they have a safe space where they can have their meltdown without hitting themselves or others.

Hope you find something that works for you, OP.

@JustLyra That's a hell of a risk to take based on some random guesswork. Obviously only the OP can weigh that up and it may well be that you're right, but it's not a conclusion I would immediately jump to and it's risky advice.

He physically grabs him? This is abuse, he should not be alone with that child. A child with ASD having a meltdown is not being bad, they are not in control and there is very little that can be done from an outside perspective to help them regain control except keeping things quiet and calm and non judgemental. Shouting and swearing and door slamming are also forms of abuse.

A raised, stern voice is not the name as shouting.

Kids with ASCs often don't understand voice tone, to many of them "louder" just means "angry" and a parent's anger fuels their meltdown. Or the raised voice is physically overwhelming due to sensory issues and they scream louder to shut it out.

I had to train myself to use a flat calm voice no matter what. It doesn't come naturally to me but it can be learnt.

OP is there any possibility of parenting training (ideally ASC specific) for your DH? Or you could go as a couple? NAS used to do "early bird" sessions for parents of newly diagnosed kids.

Lordy, the things that qualify as abuse these days! So - shouting, grabbing a child, slamming doors and swearing. The child isn't being battered ffs. Your life must consist of peace perfect peace all day, with angelic children who never put a foot wrong. Some of us live in the real world.

I think your DH is a bully.

His shouting is way beyond frustration

@LorraineJelly
Yep, had the same thing myself.. ND DS hitting DD.. family thinking (I could see it in their eyes) that I was a terrible mother for not giving DD a hug. I know YOU will see it as doing what I did, which was removing DS to a safe quiet space & sitting with him until I could speak to him in a calm way about it all..
#can't do right for doing wrong
#who'd be a mum ;-)

Your DH needs parenting classes. His behaviour towards your son is never going to work but he obviously doesn’t see that —- he’s as much in the moment as your son is whereas you can see you have to play the long game.
Do you have a HV you can call on? Or GP to suggest your husband does some specific learning in where he’s going wrong.

Yelling at a child in meltdown is never going to help it's like pouring oil on a fire. Tell you husband he is only make the situation worse and he needs to be the adult and control his emotions. Your child needs him to do this. How much does he understand about the meltdowns......is it triggering anything in him.....if he won't listen then there is some hard thinking to be done.

Your ds is having the meltdown.

Your H is having the tantrum and behaving dreadfully. Best thing you can do is tell him to leave and you will discuss later.

Your DH is being verbally and physically agressive to both you and your child. Anyone grabbing and swearing at my child would be an absolute line for me.

This is not about wanting a house where people don't shout, it's nothing to do with the house, your DH is a bully. Kick him out and I'll bet the swearing and shouting miraculously disappears, and you'll be able to help your DS, you sound like you're more than capable of doing this well alone.

The usual Mumsnet solution then....

Yes I think so

Agree about a safe place. Ds1, who was an absolute live wire at that age, had his corner. It was essentially a time out and I had a tone of voice that meant business when I told him to sit there. But it removed him from a spiralling situation.

One thing you will hopefully learn is to spot and avert triggers, as often as possible. It's difficult at that age, though, because, as someone pointed out, even NT kids that age can really struggle with self regulation.

I think you are going to have to sit down with him and have a discussion about child development, explain that your child is 3 and he cannot control his emotions, when he begins a meltdown he's like a car careering off the track with no brakes. We have to be their brakes. Meeting a child in emotional distress with more emotional distress just gives them fuel. Remaining calm helps to slow them down.

He really sounds like he hasn't got a clue how to parent. Taking cues from his own parent's methods no doubt. Get some books, read them, tell him to read them. If he refuses to listen, to learn how to be a better father then you have your answer.