To dump my Ukrainian guests as homeless?

[razzbo]

It's not as evil as it sounds, bear with me. They have been living with me for 6 months and their jobs here have ended. I live in a very rural place, they don't drive and don't speak English. There is basically no chance of them getting other jobs here. The jobs they had here were given out of charity to be honest. They have found new jobs in Scotland - all 3 of them working in the same place, full time, £10 an hour, where there are other Ukrainians. Which I think they are very lucky to get considering they speak no English.

So we looked at finding them somewhere to rent but they looked at the price of rent and said no. They wanted me to find them a new sponsor so they could live for free. I tried my hardest but the council said no, and facebook said no. There are no sponsors. The council said to try the housing associations for a cheap place so I tried them all. Took forever to get answers out of them but the answers were no. They still won't rent privately. Then one of the housing association people suggested I make them homeless so that they get given temporary accommodation. My guests were up for this. I phoned around and found out all the details. 5 separate council employees (both here and in Scotland) said it was an OK idea and that they would be given somewhere to live. The plan was made - I was meant to be taking them next week and leaving them there. I phoned the council in Scotland today to just check the times of the homelessness drop-in and to check whether there was anything else I needed to know. Again, all was fine.

THEN the woman phoned me back to say she'd spoken to her manager who had said that because they are in England now and are registered at my address, they can't be made homeless in Scotland (even though they have jobs there, i.e. a reason to be there). She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

I cried on the phone. Basically, the truth is that I have to get rid of them. I can't handle them living in my house any more. I have been so kind and nice to them but it's been too much. They won't leave unless they have jobs to go to as they just want the money. They refuse to rent. I could make them homeless here but I would have to live with them hating me and crying at me (they do this a lot to get their way) while waiting for their new accommodation.

I was so close to being free. If I'd never phoned the council today I could have just taken them to Scotland and left them and been none the wiser about it all. What should I do? If it was you, would you just take them anyway? Surely the council has a duty of care to anyone who turns up saying they are homeless? Surely if you are a homeless human being it doesn't matter which county you last lived in? Also they have a child with them. Surely they will be given somewhere to stay if I take them to the drop-in?

That’s cheeky!

You can’t squat a domestic property in England.

There are jobs with accommodation going.
Picking veg, factory work, cutting Christmas trees.

You've been more than kind.

They'd 6 months to put aside money for a deposit in an area where they could easily find work but they haven't.

The 6 months is up.

They'll survive.

Many relationships have broken down between guests and hosts, the guests won't be left homeless.

Take a deep breath and get your home back. 💞

Take them. You wrote they have jobs lined up in Scotland and just don’t want to pay out for housing, etc. That is not fair to you, and a major sense of entitlement on their part.

I'm confused by stuff about how they "won't" rent privately. If they "can't" because they have no money or there's nowhere that will take them, that's one thing. But the way you put it sounds like they've simply decided it's your responsibility to go on supporting them as long as they say so.

It isn't. If I understand correctly the scheme is for a minimum of 6 months, which you've done, very generously. It's time to move on. If they can afford to rent but "won't" then they can sleep on the fucking street.

Can you help them get private accommodation set up in Scotland, on the basis of their jobs there? Maybe paying the deposit for them if necessary.

Alternatively make them homeless here, council can house them while they're unemployed, then it's up to them to sort out future employment here or in Scotland. With your help if you feel like being generous enough to give it.

That's a really kind post but I think these people are taking the piss at this point.

They are Ukranian and it's bad that their country is at war but they are not incompetent. They can clearly earn money and no one wants to rent privately but we all have to so they just need to go and do the job and figure it out for themselves. They can get some of the money back from Ukraine for their deposit. I even think driving them all the way there is way overboard.

They are piss takers, OP. I am not sure what is going on in their heads, but there may be an attitude of "This is a country that's a lot richer than my country (Ukraine), so surely there's plenty of resources to go around and it's only to be expected that I'll just be given what I want."

She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

She's having you on (probably because the LA doesn't really want the responsibility of helping them either). Kick them out. They have jobs; they can find somewhere to live; it might be less than ideal, but that's life. Anyone with a child will not be left to roam the streets.

Just to add: it's not in their interest or Ukraine's interest to be allowed free rent indefinitely. They will need, ultimately, to go back to their country to rebuild the place (and given the Ukrainian advances in the last month or two, it's likely that will happen sooner than later); it already has a shrinking and aging population and will basically collapse and disappear as a country if all the relatively young people with kids decide that they get a comfier deal by staying in the UK or elsewhere.

"These people" are refugees. Have you seen the state of their home? Wonder how many of their friends have been killed?
The language in some of these posts is shocking.

Look, allowing people to take the piss and gradually sink into long-term dependency on others is not doing them a kindness.

People who have suffered trauma do need understanding and kindness, but they also need firm and clear expectations, and they need to feel that sense of respect and routine that comes from stuff like holding down a job, paying their own expenses and making their way.

They need to be psychologically prepared for going back to Ukraine in the near future, where things are going to be even tougher.

I also don’t think you should take the offer of rent guarantor for them. I am a landlord and several years ago, I had tenants, whose parents acted as guarantor. After about 18 months, the tenants decided to stop paying rent despite no change in financial circumstances. There were also children involved. The parents were not wealthy. This was all through an agent, who told me they would just continue to take rent from the parents, who were legally obliged to pay.

In hindsight, I probably could have told the agent not to. However this didn’t occur to me and I instructed the agent to serve notice and was prepared to go for eviction to protect the the parents in the hope the family would secure HA accommodation for the children. As is, the family moved in with the parents. To put it bluntly, I had the power to continue to demand rent or release the parents by serving notice. Idk how long that could have gone on for, probably indefinitely. But it isn’t something to be entered into lightly, especially when these adults can afford to pay the rent themselves.

I'm confused by a few details.

Who looked after the child whilst the adults were working?
How did they find these jobs in Livingston? Personal contact? Adverts?
How long will those jobs remain open?

THEN the woman phoned me back to say she'd spoken to her manager who had said that because they are in England now and are registered at my address, they can't be made homeless in Scotland (even though they have jobs there, i.e. a reason to be there). She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

Just so it. They're piss takers. They have jobs, they will have to private rent like everyone else. Who cares what they want? British people would also prefer housing association properties for the permanent tenancies and cheaper rents, but they can't get them because there aren't enough to go round.

This....

As they have jobs and have had 6 months help.... They will now be earning 1200£ weekly (before tax bettween them).

They are choosing not to rent...

Of course it's different! These refugees aren't paying utility bills. So their only expenses are the personal ones.

Yes, they should save some of their money, because they know (or should be told) that they'll be moving out in 6 months and they'll need savings to move out. The savings enabe them to pay their deposit and first month's rent, plus buy furniture and if on a key meter for gas and electric, top those up too before they can use it. They can save the money they'd have otherwise been spending on utility bills. They've no excuses for not doing this.

They should also have been attending college for a learning to speak English as a foreigner course.

They should have been learning British culture and trying to fit in, accepting they live in Britain now. Not demanding to have things their own way at others expense.

The ones OP has have no respect for OP as a person or for her generosity with her time, they're treating her like she's their social worker and they're being rude too.

They haven't tried to integrate into society or done anything to get themselves into a position of being able to move out. Instead of being grateful OP opened her home up to them and has provided lots of help above and beyond that, they're expecting OP to do everything for them, including housing them for free or organising someone else to do it. It's taking the piss.

Oh please. These are grown adults who took one look at the price of private rent and said "Nope, I'll just continue living for free ta". They haven't paid a penny in keep to the OP.

There might be a war on, but it still costs money to live here. They have been very very lucky to be able to send all their income back home but that is a privilege that has come to an end.

They, and posters here, are emotionally blackmailing the OP when they are simply refusing to join the real world and earn money and pay for their own living expenses.

These grifters have taken advantage of you for too long - ditch! They will land on their feet somewhere.

Ive not read through the entire thread so this may have already been said and I definitely cant comment on Livingstone, but in many parts of Scotland e.g. Glasgow there is hhardly any rental property around. I know someone who applied for over 100 properties and didn't get any of them. I also know lots of professionals on good salaries who are also unable to secure a rental property. So just renting them somewhere might not be as easy as you think.
OP I think you've done an amazing thing (Im also very rural and thought about doing it) and I hope you get in sorted out.

But they no longer need the OPs help. They both have FT jobs. They are just being greedy not wanting to pay the going rate for rent. Yes it's bloody expensive and will take up a big proportion of their income. That's what UK citizens have to put up with. It's unreasonable to expect you to house then for free indefinitely.

Well by my calculations they'll be earning £3600 a month after tax etc between them. Why shouldn’t they pay like everyone else?

Er.... You know.... The Ukrainian ones who I was helping who were living with hosts who were covering their bills out of the £350 a month to try and give them a head start and I actually saw their bank account after two months and they had two grand which they had got solely since arriving in the UK. They had universal credit and worked full time at minimum wage.

Those ones. You know actual examples of Ukrainian refugees.

So please don't lecture me as if I don't know anything.

This is where it gets annoying for many. Hosts who have gone out of their way (often at their own expense) to give someone a break and then they have someone who isn't prepared to engage in being independent when they have the ability to. These hosts know their guests well by this point and their level of English and ability to cope. They are asking them to do something beyond their capability.

A lot of hosts have spent considerable time working out stuff like this, helping establish a plan, giving guests relevant information. They often know exactly how much money their guests have earnt / got from UC. Many have looked into the availability of housing too.

I know a number of host families who are having similar problems locally. Rental property around here is available and it is comparatively affordable. It certainly is a lot more 'doable' around here than other places.

Its dreadful. And as I say some of the local Ukrainians are mortified by some of the behaviour of their compatriots around here. It's really straining relationships.

I do think that the scheme attracts a lot of hosts who are really nice people. People who perhaps are more likely to be taken advantage of because of their generousity and they find it harder to disassociate.

I think its important to be aware of there being various different dynamics. In some cases hosts absolutely need encouragement and support in being told they aren't being unreasonable in being firm with guests. There are some who have the ability to move on, but are making an active choice not to because the set up they have is a good gig and are taking advantage as a result.

Yes they are refugees. We should have sympathy. We should also treat as adults rather than infantilising them or reducing them to the concept of being helpless too though. It is unhelpful to regardless them as 'incapable' especially in situations where they have demonstrated they are capable and hosts are fully aware of their current means as in this particular case.

Well this is why it was idiotic for people to take these families in, in the first place.

What an entirely predictable situation but everyone wanted to be a hero huh?

*They arent asking them to do something beyond their capability.

A friend has a Ukrainian couple staying with her. They've been here for just over two months and have built up a good amount of money. They've been massively apologetic to my friend saying they are sorry but moving on etc etc. They've sorted somewhere to live and will be fully independent.

The contrast is something else between some examples I've seen.

Some Ukrainians really have stepped up and are making it work and are prepared to look after themselves.

Then there are others who are very different.

I think the idea that it's a cultural difference that's preventing Ukrainians from being independent is deeply patronising in its own right.