To dump my Ukrainian guests as homeless?

[razzbo]

It's not as evil as it sounds, bear with me. They have been living with me for 6 months and their jobs here have ended. I live in a very rural place, they don't drive and don't speak English. There is basically no chance of them getting other jobs here. The jobs they had here were given out of charity to be honest. They have found new jobs in Scotland - all 3 of them working in the same place, full time, £10 an hour, where there are other Ukrainians. Which I think they are very lucky to get considering they speak no English.

So we looked at finding them somewhere to rent but they looked at the price of rent and said no. They wanted me to find them a new sponsor so they could live for free. I tried my hardest but the council said no, and facebook said no. There are no sponsors. The council said to try the housing associations for a cheap place so I tried them all. Took forever to get answers out of them but the answers were no. They still won't rent privately. Then one of the housing association people suggested I make them homeless so that they get given temporary accommodation. My guests were up for this. I phoned around and found out all the details. 5 separate council employees (both here and in Scotland) said it was an OK idea and that they would be given somewhere to live. The plan was made - I was meant to be taking them next week and leaving them there. I phoned the council in Scotland today to just check the times of the homelessness drop-in and to check whether there was anything else I needed to know. Again, all was fine.

THEN the woman phoned me back to say she'd spoken to her manager who had said that because they are in England now and are registered at my address, they can't be made homeless in Scotland (even though they have jobs there, i.e. a reason to be there). She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

I cried on the phone. Basically, the truth is that I have to get rid of them. I can't handle them living in my house any more. I have been so kind and nice to them but it's been too much. They won't leave unless they have jobs to go to as they just want the money. They refuse to rent. I could make them homeless here but I would have to live with them hating me and crying at me (they do this a lot to get their way) while waiting for their new accommodation.

I was so close to being free. If I'd never phoned the council today I could have just taken them to Scotland and left them and been none the wiser about it all. What should I do? If it was you, would you just take them anyway? Surely the council has a duty of care to anyone who turns up saying they are homeless? Surely if you are a homeless human being it doesn't matter which county you last lived in? Also they have a child with them. Surely they will be given somewhere to stay if I take them to the drop-in?

These are grown educated adults and they are taking the piss. Of course they would prefer to live rent free, we all would. They can’t. The help was to provide them some time to find jobs.

They won’t be homeless.

Just take them to your local council

Probably right, there. :(

Most likely the council in Scotland will assess them quickly, see their income and, whether they're officially homeless or not, they'll be pointed towards the private rented sector. Because that's the quickest and easiest way of solving their housing situation.

Do people KNOW what's going on with the private rental sector in Scotland at the moment (especially in or near major cities)?

I work for a local authority in a team working under the Homes for Ukraine scheme and this situation isn’t unusual. The Government made the offer then basically washed their hands of everything and left LAs to pick up the pieces(without any additional funding for dealing with cases of homelessness!). Offering sanctuary wasn’t necessarily wrong, but the way it was done, without any real thought to how it would work, or how it would be funded, was stupid.

You obviously need your guests to move on, so give them notice and let your LA know, they will possibly try to find them new hosts (usually
min of 2 months to find someone, do the house / DBS checks etc), but most places the only real option is private rented and all the expense of that as few areas have affordable rental accommodation these days.

They will only get housing assistance if present as homeless, its the only way to access LA help, and then the option is temporary housing; for our area that’s usually down at heel hotels / b&bs or hostels, not exactly pleasant accommodation, and it’s also not free, they will be expected to pay towards it.

They will be the responsibility of the LA you live in though, and as others above say, they would likely be returned to your area (NOT you, don’t panic!) after a brief assessment should they present elsewhere. All their documentation / biometric passport will link with your address as the sponsor, so they can’t lie / pretend they’ve come from somewhere else. As long as they are in the scheme you will always be listed as their sponsor; whilst that doesn’t mean you have any legal responsibilities, it does mean they can’t dishonestly claim otherwise.

For those that say they shouldn’t get social housing over British people in need of housing, 🙄don’t worry, they can only apply and be assessed and unless they have extreme additional needs, or even with them, they will just join the long waiting lists almost everyone needing social housing, being Ukrainian gives them no extra rights.

Probably the same as the rest of the UK - ie it's expensive and there's hardly any. The council won't care and will most likely point them in that direction anyway.

What do you think should happen? Do you think they should get more help than a British person would get?

There's 3 adults with jobs, that's enough income for private rental. They'll just have to keep looking until they find one. The UK can't just magic up social housing for everyone who wants it, there's not enough to go round.

I think quite a few had very unrealistic views of the uk and thats where many problems have arisen.

Yep. The UK is a densely populated island. We get a lot of immigrants. Our housing policies are designed in deference to NIMBYs. Our green belts are precious to us. British people seem determined not to live densely in apartments and rowhouses around public transport hubs and continue to insist on detached houses and cars.

Result = a housing crisis. The NHS is not very good either. In GDP per cap standards we're on the poor side for western Europe. We have cold weather, but lack the properly insulated homes and heat pumps of our Scandi neighbors. We were hit badly by COVID.

There are a lot of issues here, but Ukrainians who only saw the UK's military help for Ukraine and the worldwide prestige enjoyed by many UK cultural exports (music, film, TV, fashion etc.) may not have seen this and may have expected a mini America of big comfy warm houses and streets paved with gold. They could get a shock this winter.

How on Earth is the post helpful to the OP?! Do you want a medal?

Any updates OP? @razzbo

www.gov.uk/guidance/homes-for-ukraine-sponsor-guidance#four-to-six-months-into-your-sponsorship-arrangement

That's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. You asked for advice so we will publish the bleeding obvious bare minimum and call it advice.

Well I did it... I took them today and left them. It has been a nightmare in the last few days and I have cried to anyone who would listen (not like me honestly) and I properly broke down in the doctor's yesterday because they wouldn't prepare a prescription and she wouldn't leave without her pills.

Anyway, getting charities involved was not the best idea in the end because they phoned my guests directly, trying to be helpful and informative, but all this did was give them the information that there might be hurdles. So yesterday they changed their minds about going 3 times and I had to talk them round. The first time it was because they might have to privately rent, then because they might have to pay for temporary accommodation, then because they might not get a place close to work. In the end I got cross and said we were going and that was that. I said they will have no money if they stay here and that they should go and see what happens and they can always come back if it doesn't work out (although that was a lie).

So we went. It was very emotional and they were terrified, as was I. We just didn't know what would happen. After I left them they sent a million messages about coming back if it doesn't work out, and then about how the council said they didn't have jobs after all. I spoke to the HR manager on Friday and they definitely have jobs so I don't know if the council is lying to them or if they are lying to me. Anyway, their last message was to ask me to bring their 20 boxes of crap to their hotel soon, so I can only assume they have a hotel. The fact that they have stopped messaging suggests that they are OK and happy.

Feeling so much better now and enjoying the quiet house and the return of freedom! Bliss! Thanks for all the support.

So glad you've finally got your place back to yourself, razzbo, though I'm sorry you've been put through a rather unpleasant end to it all

I'm sorry too that involving the charities didn't go well, but frankly not surprised. IME too many (though obviously not all) are mere fund sponges - pretty hot on buzzwords like "facilitation", "empowerment" and so on, but somewhat cooler when it comes to actually getting things done, and sometimes stone cold if there's a risk they might have to do it

Anyway it's all worked out in the end and I wish you much happiness in your new-found peace

There's 3 adults with jobs, that's enough income for private rental. They'll just have to keep looking until they find one. The UK can't just magic up social housing for everyone who wants it, there's not enough to go round.

From what the OP has said, it seems it's their refusal to pay rent that's the problem. If they're staying in emergency accommodation that they council has put them in, my understanding is that you still have to pay rent. If they're in an hotel, and working, I wonder what will happen if the still refuse to hand over any money towards their accommodation?

And well done OP , enjoy your home.

Sounds like hell OP. Glad you put your foot down. Can I ask, did they do or say anything in particular that annoyed you, or made you so desperate for them to leave?! The reason I ask is my mum has a Ukrainian lady and her son staying with her at the moment. I've got a feeling she is manipulating and taking advantage of my mum. My mum is too soft to do or say anything, though.There is no way this woman and her son are going anywhere in the next couple of months when their time is up...which will leave my mum stuck with them and in a similar situation to yours. 🙁

Oh dear I feel for her. That's the exact situation I was in. When they arrived I wanted to help and did all sorts for them, and there were loads of things like paperwork that I had to do for them anyway and things they just couldn't handle themselves like making appointments etc. But as time passed I realised that they were not even trying to be independent, and were just summoning me to do everything. It was just ridiculous - I spent hours helping them shop on Amazon, driving them about, non stop child care because they just ignored the six year old and never put her to bed. My phone would ding constantly with requests and stupid questions about ridiculous things (ordering matching mother-daughter tracksuits for example) and they did not respect my privacy or down-time and would interrupt work meetings etc. I was constantly on edge waiting for my phone to go off or for them to just come in my room demanding things. I felt like I was an unpaid PA to each of them and in the end I was deliberately hiding from them or going out all day to avoid them.

I totally blame myself for not setting clear boundaries in the first place and for being too much of a people pleaser, but also I think that one of them in particular was just a bad person. She was very selfish and manipulative, crying if she didn't get her way and saying 'you don't love us' etc. I let them manipulate me because I couldn't handle living with the crying.

Feel free to PM me as I'd be happy to talk more about it or talk to your mum. I expect she is going through something similar and it will be very very hard to move them on. Making them homeless through the council seems to be the recommended option, and she can always just say it's council policy and blame them.

'you don't love us' 😂
OP you are a saint. Well done for trying to help people.
And well done for getting them out of your life too!

What entitled people. I’ve worked with refugees from Afghanistan, Syria, and other countries and they don’t have such an entitled attitude.

And our government wants to send them to Rwanda. Tragic.

Actually, I'm sure some of them do. No country has a nation of perfect people and equally, no country has a nation of entitled, demanding people. I have a Ukrainian family with me and have had a similar (in so ways) experience to the op, in that she also refuses to help herself. She has been offered jobs and I've even said I will drive her to work each day, she refuses point blank to do these jobs though as she considers them beneath her. She's just on UC and she complains all the time about that and considers their demands that she visit their office unreasonable.

The Government is pleading for more hosts for Ukrainians, I dont think they will get many takers, especially because of the financial crisis

What an absolute nightmare.

Do you need to change your locks.

I think after you deliver their stuff, archiving their number would be a good idea.

Talk about no good deed...

I think this sort of thing must be happening everywhere. It was very noble of you to take them on but there was never a plan in place to support host families. I personally would think twice about even offering my own family a home let alone a family of non-English speaking refugees with no plan for the future.

the problem with this scheme (well, one of them) is that people will inevitably take advantage. I hear the same stories over and over and it seems that some refugees would rather live rent free with a sponsor than pay rent, even when they can afford it. This is so open to abuse and clearly many of these refugees aren't being vetted thoroughly. If we can bring people over here and they can afford to rent, we should be helping them to find a house rental not putting them up for free with a sponsor.

I actually think the sponsorship scheme is a good one, despite my own difficulties. It has, of course, had loads of problems, but it was set up in an emergency, it's not going to be perfect. It offers an awful lot of informal support for people, plus cultural education by just living in a British home. As a sponsor, I have had zero support from the council, in fact they have made the whole experience considerably worse. Other plus points of the scheme is that it's cheap. If I could change one thing, I would make refugees ineligible for UC, there's loads of work available in the UK, even without any English, people can get a job.