To dump my Ukrainian guests as homeless?

[razzbo]

It's not as evil as it sounds, bear with me. They have been living with me for 6 months and their jobs here have ended. I live in a very rural place, they don't drive and don't speak English. There is basically no chance of them getting other jobs here. The jobs they had here were given out of charity to be honest. They have found new jobs in Scotland - all 3 of them working in the same place, full time, £10 an hour, where there are other Ukrainians. Which I think they are very lucky to get considering they speak no English.

So we looked at finding them somewhere to rent but they looked at the price of rent and said no. They wanted me to find them a new sponsor so they could live for free. I tried my hardest but the council said no, and facebook said no. There are no sponsors. The council said to try the housing associations for a cheap place so I tried them all. Took forever to get answers out of them but the answers were no. They still won't rent privately. Then one of the housing association people suggested I make them homeless so that they get given temporary accommodation. My guests were up for this. I phoned around and found out all the details. 5 separate council employees (both here and in Scotland) said it was an OK idea and that they would be given somewhere to live. The plan was made - I was meant to be taking them next week and leaving them there. I phoned the council in Scotland today to just check the times of the homelessness drop-in and to check whether there was anything else I needed to know. Again, all was fine.

THEN the woman phoned me back to say she'd spoken to her manager who had said that because they are in England now and are registered at my address, they can't be made homeless in Scotland (even though they have jobs there, i.e. a reason to be there). She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

I cried on the phone. Basically, the truth is that I have to get rid of them. I can't handle them living in my house any more. I have been so kind and nice to them but it's been too much. They won't leave unless they have jobs to go to as they just want the money. They refuse to rent. I could make them homeless here but I would have to live with them hating me and crying at me (they do this a lot to get their way) while waiting for their new accommodation.

I was so close to being free. If I'd never phoned the council today I could have just taken them to Scotland and left them and been none the wiser about it all. What should I do? If it was you, would you just take them anyway? Surely the council has a duty of care to anyone who turns up saying they are homeless? Surely if you are a homeless human being it doesn't matter which county you last lived in? Also they have a child with them. Surely they will be given somewhere to stay if I take them to the drop-in?

Op, Im sorry I really don't want to rain on your parade - there is still a risk from the advice shelter have given you, that they could be sent back in your direction. The rules you quote were the same that we used to use (albeit different system in England) - emergency accommodation on the day (if they've got a child/other reason to indicate priority) and UP TO 28 days for an assessment.
I mentioned it earlier in thread but in our area that commonly meant one night in a b&b and a one way train ticket the next day, because establishing the LA didn't have a duty was one of the quickest ways to get an assessment done. It was literally a couple of lines added into a standard template.

I would hope that the LA would put them in touch with a refugee organisation in the area, but it might be worth giving them a heads up if you are intending to send them to Scotland, so that they don't turn back up at your door, and so that you don't get to housing worker in Scotland pressuring you to take them back in.

NB not sure if if my wording was clear, but the end of the emergency accommodation is when the assessment is completed and the decision given in writing, which can be a matter of hours if there's a clear cut reason that someone isn't eligible. Most authorities will grant an overnight though and signpost people to go elsewhere for advice first thing the next day.
Assessments would take longer (and therefore accommodation provided for longer) if it required for example, LA's having to investigate disputes where a landlord had served notice and whether tenants had paid rent, the 28 days allows time to request relevant paperwork that would be needed to make the decision. If the 28 days isn't needed the LA's will get the assessments done in the shortest time possible so as to avoid accommodating people they don't have to.

I think your Ukrainian guests have worked out the reality of millions of people in minimum wage jobs across the UK. Which is that the majority of your wage will be spent on rent leaving little for anything else and the prospect of saving for a mortgage in a situation like this is untenable. Majority of people here accept this and live with the fact their position is inescapable. This is why we have millions of people on the housing list. Meanwhile property prices still increasing since the only safe place for wealth is in assets leading to more people having to privately rent

there is still a risk from the advice shelter have given you, that they could be sent back in your direction.

Not picking on you particularly, because quite a lot of people have said similar over the course of this thread but...this isn't the OPs problem.

Most likely the council in Scotland will assess them quickly, see their income and, whether they're officially homeless or not, they'll be pointed towards the private rented sector. Because that's the quickest and easiest way of solving their housing situation. And more pleasant for them than living in temporary accommodation provided to the homeless. The council may help them find somewhere that doesn't require a deposit or references, in some instances the council pay the deposit.

The refugees can give up their job offer and come back to OPs town to claim homelessness if they want, but that wouldn't be sensible. I'm sure Universal Credit wouldn't be impressed with them turning down a job and expecting to still claim.

Have to say pretty much all the Ukranian families accommodated by my LA are in hotels ( in Scotland)

I think the sticky wicket might be that they aren't technically homeless if they are just refusing to pay rent. Personally I think you're far too emotionally invested when they've made it perfectly clear they want a free ride regardless of having two incomes which would easily pay for properties most people won't ever get a look in to. Talk about ungrateful. And now you're going to go through all the performance of driving a bunch of freeloaders to Scotland. Sod that. They'd be lucky to get a lift to the local council office if they took the piss out of me like this.

OP to be clear, you don't have to have anything more to do with these refugees. You're not responsible for sorting out where they go next.

You hosted them for six months as agreed in advance, now that time is up and they must leave because you want them to. You don't need any other reason.

If they have keys, change your locks. If they turn up again after moving out you don't need to let them in or even answer the door to them.

If they or someone else phones you about their situation, all you have to say is "sorry I can't provide any further help" then hang up. Or don't answer the phone in the first place.

You have made the situation clear to them, they've taken the piss instead of taking responsibility for their own lives. At least they've got themselves a job, that's a start. Now they need to recognise they have to sort out the rest of their lives for themselves too.

What you've said makes perfect sense, Proteinpudding; however as PPs have said the key here is surely for OP to make sure it's no longer up to her to sort out

The various agencies can be only too quick to fish out another "rule" which promises the earth if the enquirer can just carry on doing such-and-such "for now", and eventually the help can fritter away because they're on leave, off sick, not in post or just inameetin

Sadly, in my (long) experience, the only real answer can be to focus on "they're yours" and pull right back

Is there another Scottish support group who can help or a church/community local to where they have jobs?
This should not be all on you,they are adults and need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.
I feel they are taking advantage.
be very firm,polite,not unkind,but determined in what you decide to do and follow it through.they may well out on tears as it worked in the past but it won't now will it op?!
tell them clearly of their choices 😊
hopefully they will respect you for being firm and grateful for your huge commitment to house them for so long.
it is sad that some see kindness as weakness .
good luck 💐🌈

To the OPs who have commented on my post, I'm not suggesting it should be the OPs problem, just that to make sure it doesn't get pushed back on her she may need to get in touch with the advocates/charities that PPs have recommended in Scotland to make sure that she doesn't, for example:
Get harangued by the LA by phone, trying to guilt trip her into taking them back
Be pressured by the guests trying to get her to take them back
Have them knocking on the door for help after the LA have given them travel vouchers to return to the area the OP lives.

It's all well and good telling OP to just be strong, but from experience it is very tough to turn someone away when they genuinely have nowhere to go - and housing will push and push her guests that they must know someone who has a sofa for a night.

If there is another point of contact for support, to help with appeals or to help get a new sponsor in Scotland or whatever it may be, it would be much easier for the OP to step back and avoid that pressure.

The council are pulling the wool over your eyes. You don't have any legal obligation to these guests in your home. You have done a nice thing, I wouldn't do it because the money is an insult and quite frankly wheres the support for people like you OP?

Horrendous drop them at the council.

Yes, I suspect this may happen. Emergency accommodation for a day or two until their application for social housing is turned down due to lack of local connection

Also I remember when councils used to have links to private landlords and would help with bonds etc, when the accommodation offer ended - in the regions I've worked in the last few years that's all gone, they literally just tell people to look on Rightmove and show them the door, usually with security present if they refuse to leave the council office, and a leaflet for shelter/social services on the way out (who can't house them either)
Very few landlords sign up to schemes with councils any more as the rental market is so hot, landlords have no need to consider tenants on low incomes, the councils know that.

Again not saying that it is the OPs responsibility to deal with, but thats why it's important to link the guests/the housing official they present to with some other organisation so that the pressure isn't directed back at the OP. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

The government should be housing our own homeless and vulnerable first before they even think about putting up refugees.

All the virtue signallers taking in refugees aren’t happy now that they have to look after them.

It’s got nothing to do with us. It’s a regional problem we should stay out of. All the money in aid and weapons wasted. Everyone forgets how Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and we are sending billions that could be used to help people in the UK.

People will no doubt call me racist but tell me how you can justify everything when there are so many in the UK suffering.

Yes this is difficult

There must be loads of people desperate for housing who have been waiting for a long time

I do feel sorry for the Ukrainians though

@VoiceOfCommonSense I absolutely agree. Not even the vulnerable just general people who have been waiting years or need extra bedrooms. UK need to sort their own shit out first. I knew this would happen.... Long term there's no plan because once you accept people (the GOV into a Country) it's difficult to just wave someone off and say on your way.

This always seems to happen

I know. Shocking isn't it?

Yet the government pretends it doesn't but it has been happening for years'

@razzbo
Hope you get rid of the Freddie Freeloaders-
It’s shocking how greedy and manipulative they have been to you.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have moved to peaceful areas of Ukraine, rather than coming to live scot free off people overseas?

Hotels are clogged with Ukrainians in holiday spots-
Who is paying?

We are are overcrowded small Islands.

They have a vast Country in which to live in.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have been absorbed bu the peaceful areas in their homeland?

The government should be housing our own homeless and vulnerable first before they even think about putting up refugees.

The government should be doing both.

People will no doubt call me racist but tell me how you can justify everything when there are so many in the UK suffering.

Because with the amount of poverty and suffering in the world, every time anyone helps anyone you could always criticise the fact that they're not spending that effort and resources helping someone else. So what? Noone should help anyone? Even if one accepts your point about the importance of putting "our own" first - which own? Is helping the homeless bad because you could instead be helping orphans in the care system? Is helping them bad because you could instead be helping socially isolated pensioners?

This country is perfectly capable of dealing with its domestic homelessness problem (which was massively improved under the last Labour government but took off again from 2010) and taking a reasonable number of refugees as well. And it's not like if we reject all the refugees, the money is actually going to go to our own needy instead. You just know that under this government it's all going to float upwards to the same people who have continued to get richer through Brexit, the pandemic, the fuel crisis and everything else. Like the £350m a week that we were all going to benefit from in NHS funding by not spending it on the EU. So now we're not in the EU - how much of it has the NHS seen?

@dollytot I'm in a v similar position and just wanted to say I feel your pain. The impact its had on our family has been huge and the naivety of the family members shocking. Its been very stressful and I envisage lots (more!) difficult conversations in the future as it becomes more apparent the situation they've got themselves in.

They have a vast Country in which to live in.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have been absorbed bu the peaceful areas in their homeland?

You've got a fair point there. Supposing that only half of Ukraine is safe - a conservative estimate - it's still 3 times the size of England. But ...

Ukrainians still remember EU door being firmly shut to them until recently, all the while EU was being flooded by millions invited by Merkel "because we need more people".

Put you in their shoes - would you move to a safer area of Ukraine, a country that has already gone to the dogs even before this conflict started, or rather jump on the "oven ready" offer of some virtue signalling no-brain buffoon (aka as "a usefull idiot") from the other end of Europe? Isn't that what is called "a no brainer"?

All theses problems were predictable from day one, and now real people have to bear the consequences of the half-baked posturing by a self-centred lying buffoon.

Time for some tough love?

But the fact that problems have occurred doesn't mean that the scheme as a whole is without value or shouldn't have been followed. There are problems in everything - for a judgment like that you first need to start with an informed and accurate idea of the scale of the problems, compared to the good that has been achieved.