To ask why you gave DC his last name?

[Tsort]

If you kept your name/aren’t married, but gave DC their father’s last name (as opposed to double barrelling or giving them you own), may I ask why?

I’m asking women who kept their names. If you didn’t and never intended to, this post isn’t relevant to you.

This is the truth of it for the vast majority. There's always the bollocks about ooh his surname is nicer but honestly people do it because it's considered the norm and they don't stop to think why. Why are surnames patrilineal and why do so many women go along with it and happily support it.

🤨 It’s perfectly possible to not care about having the same name as your children and NOT be a quivering victim of internalised misogyny, and it’s condescending to pretend otherwise. It’s simply not important to me (and I detailed why above).

Because I liked the sound of my partner’s surname more than mine and I didn’t want to burden my son with an unnecessarily long surname by double barrelling.

My partner was happy for him to have my surname though.

Quivering isn’t a requirement, but we can examine the reasons you detailed.

Because my ex cared about it and I didn’t.

Why do you think this is? If not internalised misogyny, what is the alternative reason?

I have a big, blended family and due to marriage, remarriage and other things, I only share my surname with my estranged father and one of my sisters, therefore I’m not a person who thinks you have to have the same last name to be family.

That’s fine, but your DC could have had your name and your ex could have been the odd one out. Why did you settle upon the specific, patrilineal naming convention?

Why do you think women talk about not being attached to their last names and see them in the context of broader families (I’m estranged from my father/I wasn’t raised by my father/I don’t feel the need to carry on my father’s name), while men’s last names are theirs? How often do you hear of a man taking his wife’s last name because he is estranged from his father?

I made him, I birthed him, I look after him, he could be called anything and that wouldn’t make me any less his mother. If he wants to change his name to mine when he’s older, or to anything different, I’ll help him.

Surely it would make more sense for DC to bear the name of the parent who birthed and looked after him than the parent who apparently did not? But he doesn’t.

Women are free to make any decisions the want around naming conventions, but it’s a bit bizarre to deny the motivations behind a lot of those decisions and the fact that they are made in a heavily patriarchal context and influenced by reflexive misogyny.

Why do you think this is? If not internalised misogyny, what is the alternative reason?

Genuine question- do you think that internalised misogyny is the only reason someone wouldn’t care about it? As I detailed below, I don’t find it important because I already don’t share the same last name as 90% of my family. It’s simply not something I value. I don’t think I’d value it if I were male, either.

That’s fine, but your DC could have had your name and your ex could have been the odd one out. Why did you settle upon the specific, patrilineal naming convention?

Why do you think women talk about not being attached to their last names and see them in the context of broader families (I’m estranged from my father/I wasn’t raised by my father/I don’t feel the need to carry on my father’s name), while men’s last names are theirs? How often do you hear of a man taking his wife’s last name because he is estranged from his father?

Odd that you latched onto my father there. I don’t think my name is HIS name, it’s my name. I only listed him because he (and my sister, who you skipped right over) also has that name. I haven’t changed my name, and nor would I.

And yes my ex COULD have been “the odd one out” (also a weird term, me and my son aren’t odd to each other because we don’t share the same name- as I said, names in my family vary greatly so he is NOT in
fact odd for not sharing the name of his mum) but like I said, HE cared about it. And yes I dug into that constantly with him, he was never able to produce a good reason why he cared other than “I just do” and he admitted that it probably was because of the patriarchal society we live in but he just felt strongly about it. HIS motivation here was definitely based in sexism, mine was just not having the same value as most people do.

Surely it would make more sense for DC to bear the name of the parent who birthed and looked after him than the parent who apparently did not? But he doesn’t.

Women are free to make any decisions the want around naming conventions, but it’s a bit bizarre to deny the motivations behind a lot of those decisions and the fact that they are made in a heavily patriarchal context and influenced by reflexive misogyny

Why? Like I’m genuinely befuddled why you think a name makes a family. Do you not have in-laws or other family members with different surnames? Are they not family? Do people cease to be family if they get married into another family name?

I’ll throw my hands up and admit I’m the weird one, but I literally do not think that sharing a name is important in a family. And as to my motivation why I don’t think that, as I said, I don’t share the same name as most of my family and it has never once been an issue or made me feel less like family.

Genuine question- do you think that internalised misogyny is the only reason someone wouldn’t care about it?

Lots of women don’t care about it, the vast majority of men do care about it. Why do you think that is? Seriously, think it through.

You've engaged with nothing I’ve said and answered nothing I’ve asked. You come close, touch the surface and then skid off. It’s interesting. There’s no point to this exchange if you won’t (or can’t) respond to what’s being said, and circular conversations are dull. So, I’ll leave you with this. Again.

Women are free to make any decisions the want around naming conventions, but it’s a bit bizarre to deny the motivations behind a lot of those decisions and the fact that they are made in a heavily patriarchal context and influenced by reflexive misogyny.

@Tsort

It does seem like you’ve determined that everyone who doesn’t hold the same value as you is suffering from internalised misogyny, and that makes it hard to take you seriously. I answered all your questions, we just value different things. Of course no one in our society is untouched by patriarchy, but not every decision a woman makes is ruled by it. I’d encourage you to open your mind to the possibility that names
are just names to some people. I looked at my decision, asked myself honestly if I thought internalised misogyny played a part, and came back with the answer that it did not.

If my son wants my name when he grows up, he can have it, but it wouldn’t change our connection a single bit. Imagining my son with my name invokes no feeling in me other than “his current name sounds better”.

Just to add, I’ve REPEATEDLY answered that the reason I don’t care about my name is that I have a family made up of multiple names, I also was presented multiple times with the opportunity to change my own name to match other family members and declined. I don’t know why you think this is motivated by misogyny.

I am not responsible about abused men's actions and only can explain mine.
Would it please you if i said well my husband wanted our child to have his name and I wanted my child to have mine.We tossed a coin and he won.
In my 20s I liked to think I was so darn oppressed by patriarchal traditions.In my 30s I appreciate a man who fixes my car, supports me without asking to be the one who stays at home with our daughter etc.Yes it's a traditional set up and it makes me happy.
It's a 2 way street.I hope you fight just as hard to go back to work straight after birth just like men do after their child is born ,to pay for everything equally etc.

Tradition I suppose. We did marry now split after 20 years

I personally dislike double-barrelled names. Just pick a name, it's really not that hard and I think not fair on the child to be stuck with a ridiculous name because its parents can't sort themselves out.

ds got our married family name so it was straight forward.

If we hadn't decided to get married before he was born he would have had my surname. If we had got married after he was born I would have kept my name to be aligned with ds and dh would have been fine with that (these sorts of things don't bother him either way)

Because I knew we’d get married at some point.

You’re conflating rather a lot of things, here. Having an equal partnership doesn’t mean a man can’t fix your car or support you to stay home with your child. I have those things and I’m delighted that you do, if you want them. Feminism is about the freedom to make informed choices.

And while it’s not immediate, as that’s physically impossible (men don’t give birth, women do), quite a lot of women go back to work soon after childbirth - they can’t afford not to.

This does not change the fact that patriarchal structures exist and oppress women and that said structures should be examined. And, yes, the trope of distancing oneself from an abusive/absent/estranged father by eschewing his name exists almost entirely for women, very seldom for men. So it makes sense to wonder why that is.

Sorry just realised how completely outing that is, even with the names changed, because of how unusual it is for women to do what my family did with our names, so I'm going to report myself.

I’m specifically asking women who kept their names why they gave their DC their husband’s name.

Well perhaps the abused men are oppressed here by thinking they don't feel they can change name without society looking down on them (being weak etc).I can openly say I was traumatised by my father's family and don't wish to associate with them.

Totally understandable. I’ll report it for you, as well.

Good question tbh. I still maintain though that it’s got a better ring to it than my maiden name. Although saying that, my DS is considering changing his surname to my maiden name now he’s over 18 because when my mum passes away, the family name will die out otherwise.

Perhaps they were. Or perhaps they absorbed the societal programming that a man’s name is permanently his and a woman’s is transient, so changing their names never even occurred to them. Or perhaps a combination of both.

All of the reasons we’ve listed stem from patriarchal societal structures, though. And they warrant examination and discussion.

@Tsort thank you. Sorry, I was trying to add to the discussion and maybe inspire other women to think about it all.

Off topic, but your DS sounds like a lovely young man. That’s really deep and compassionate thinking for a teenager.

@PeekabooAtTheZoo No worries! I thought it was interesting, but totally get how it would be outing.