Debate over children in public places

[mavismorpoth]

Friend said when you take public transport you have to expect you will hear things like screeching children, see mess, and shouting etc.

I said you have a duty as a parent to ensure your children learn how to act in public and not make mess or screech or shout where it's controllable.

We disagreed.

IABU - if you take public transport you put up and shut up because children and families can be loud and messy

IANBU - as a parent it's a duty to keep our children under a semblance of control in public and not make excessive noise or mess

Do you have DC OP? If so how old are they?

How do you know the difference, as a by stander, between shouting etc that is controllable and shouting etc that isn't?

Surely the reality is somewhere in the middle?

parents of course should control their children and not let them leave mess around but to expect to never hear children when your out isn’t going to happen!

Your options are too absolute. The first two points you both made are correct. Concessions need to be made on one side and effort on the other.

So what do you do if your toddler is having a tantrum on the bus? Do you have to get off and walk home as punishment because you couldn’t ‘control your child’.

Of course your just have to deal with some noise etc in public places and it won’t always be caused by children. Many times it’s drunk or dickish adults.

I agree with you.

Well, it’s both, isn’t it?

One, age 6. Never had a meltdown but has been loud in public, I just ask her not to and make sure she knows why.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Yes generally we should all behave on public transport but children can be over tired, over excited, overwhelmed, over stimulated and generally just pissed off so being trapped on public transport sometimes could be an issue. I'm mother of a ND child and transitions are a huge problem for us so just the act of getting on public transport would have the whole edge.

However it's not just a free pass for children to run riot.

A bit of both.

A parent should do their best to reach DC how to behave in public. DC crying eg in cinemas should be removed.

However children exist, we were all DC once, and they don't always get it right. You can't expect them to behave as mini adults all the time.

Sometimes shit happens and it's noisy, messy and unavoidable.

I'm not voting as your two choices are not opposed to each other. Yes, obviously parents should teach their children about appropriate behaviour in public spaces. Yet at the same time, children are not always going to comply with their parents despite the parents best efforts. So sometimes you will experience excessive noise or mess caused by children in a public place. Just as sometimes adults make excessive noise or leave a mess in a public place.

I see your point OP

like some people - not just families - seem to think a train journey actually should involve as many picnic items as possible, playing music out loud etc. Of course people shouldn't do that.

similarly, letting toddlers run up and down carriages etc, shriek, is a problem. I can see why you've presented the two extremes, there's definitely people who fall at either end.

it's quite rare to see a child having a meltdown. It's quite common to see them having noisy laughs and behaviour that is fine for home but not for outside.

Erm both 🤷‍♀️

I say this as a parent to two toddlers, but if I see a child having a meltdown, because they're too hot, tired, hungry etc then that's absolutely fine up to a certain age when they are able to communicate their feelings better.
But if it's just a lack of input from a parent, or they're screaming because they want this that or the other, then no, that's just plain annoying.

I don’t think you live in the normal world. The vast majority of people don’t class picnic food items on trains or children laughing to be unacceptable.

Some noise is to be expected. Most children are loud and excitable and it's not fair that we place adult expectations on them all the time. It's as much their world as ours.

However; it depends on the extent of disruption. I have one child who has never been any trouble in public. She is beautifully behaved and reasonable and I could take her anywhere from birth and know things would run smoothly. My second child has a very different temperament. She's naturally loud - to the extent I had her hearing tested as I assumed something must be amiss. I think I was so used to her sister that I forgot quiet children are the anomaly not the norm! She's always chatting and laughing and full of life. Which some may find annoying.

I'm not on public transport much but I would correct her if she started screeching or if she was whinging loudly about something but other than that I'd probably leave her be. Mess is a no no though.

Does your friend have particularly unruly children? My sister has feral kids and she makes excuses for them all the time so I can imagine her completely agreeing with your friend.

Both. You teach your kids not to be inconsiderate and loud, but sometimes there are off days when even well brought up kids go off the rails. It doesn't help to have strangers tutting all over the place.

Public transport is public, kids are people, you expect to encounter people in all their variable levels of tolerability on public transport.

luxx not a fan of indoor voices then?

re picnics - you can eat discreetly on a train or you can make a mission of spreading stuff all over the table that you are actually meant to share with strangers IYSWIM.

Everyone should make an effort to ensure their actions don't negatively impact on other transport users. But sometimes shit happens. A toddler has a tantrum. A child is sick. An ND person has a meltdown. So there has to be understanding.

In my book people shouldn't..
Watching Peppa Pig, listening to music, watching a film, playing a game etc without headphones is pretty antisocial. Whatever age.
Leaving behind rubbish
Having loud conversations
Eating very smelly food
Playing musical instruments

Trying to stop a crying baby/toddler, walking a kid up and down (without squealing), playing games quietly, having a picnic etc is just normal behaviour

Other things I hate on public transport include people eating stinky food, manspreading, BO, people watching videos or playing music on their phones - give me a noisy kid over any of those.

One, age 6. Never had a meltdown but has been loud in public, I just ask her not to and make sure she knows why.

Is she neurotypical, has she suffered trans which affects her behaviour, does she have full hearing that allows her to hear and regulate the volume of her voice, does she have no disabilities that affect noice. Did she never have tantrums as a toddler? What wound happening if she became upset or say got stung by a bee. Would she suppress noise because she was in public?

@EmmaH2022 not a fan of indoor voices then?

It's quite common to see them having noisy laughs and behaviour that is fine for home but not for outside.

And yet you specifically said noisy laughs outside are not acceptable.

I think we hold parents to higher standards than the rest of the general public.
I tell my children to behave but it you can stop a 2 year old lying on the floor having a melt down please let me know.

like some people - not just families - seem to think a train journey actually should involve as many picnic items as possible, playing music out loud etc. Of course people shouldn't do that.

Why do you care what people are eating on a train? Unless it's very unpleasantly smelly but picnic items tend not to be

People should be accepting of noise, chatter or crying from small children in public or on public transport. Obviously parents should curtail running/climbing etc as can be dangerous or distracting. Same with feet on seats or kicking the seat in front etc. But otherwise, all perfectly normal.

What's much more annoying and deserving of complaint is the constant swearing from many adults on public transport. Either in conversation or on the phone. It's really frustrating and puts me and many other families off.