Debate over children in public places

[mavismorpoth]

Friend said when you take public transport you have to expect you will hear things like screeching children, see mess, and shouting etc.

I said you have a duty as a parent to ensure your children learn how to act in public and not make mess or screech or shout where it's controllable.

We disagreed.

IABU - if you take public transport you put up and shut up because children and families can be loud and messy

IANBU - as a parent it's a duty to keep our children under a semblance of control in public and not make excessive noise or mess

Many years ago it was co

Hi @mavismorpoth I don’t disagree with you, but you left out the bit where you also don’t agree with people who speak on their phones, people who argue, or day I say it people are speak about things you disagree with, ie political matters. After all, you’re speaking about other passengers being a nuisance. Children can be but they’re not as bad as adults who do have capacity to control their behaviour

Fucking phone

Many years ago it was common for many adults to parent a child in public I was scared of an escalator my mom got on I didn't the next adult took my hand encouraged me on took me up to my mom I ran off in town was quickly grabbed and returned to my mom these days you dont get that you get people standing by watching you judging your every movement so kids can run further play up more I even remember going to put a sweet in my mouth and the man next to me saying we pay first yes there was stranger danger but there was always people around

Situation A: Mother and lovely 3 year old sitting reading together on the train.
Situation B: The 3 year old spills their drink, wets themselves, bangs their head on the carriage window and the Mother doesn't know what to sort out first.

It can go from A to B in 10 seconds.

I'm out and about sometimes and honestly can't say I've noticed much of the kicking off and screeching often mentioned on here. Kids do get a bad rep on here.

Only example I can think of was a baby on the plane, screaming blue murder, but what are you going to do? Hardly something the mum or dad could do but look sheepishly around, but most folk were glancing sympathetically back.

Reaching there.

The thing I don't like is:

screeching children on trains/tubes
children running around where there are hot drinks (e.g. on trains) - there was an accident - not involving me but a parent not watching a child who knocked over a hot cup of coffee - luckily not on himself but onto another person... Child was playing a game.

I see a mother with 2 under 4 boys on an express bus most evenings. The other evening she didn't have her phone so let her boys out of their double buggy, they stood up on seats/her laps and were surprisingly well behaved. The one thing she has with them and gives them is snacks, a lot. Never had much of these when I was young!

Parents should do what is reasonably possible to teach their child and manage their child's behaviour. Some children take longer than others to learn ( as is the case in all areas of child development). A few will never manage 'socially acceptable' behaviour but as long as the behaviour is not dangerous, they still have a right to be in public places.

And also I don't know why you're so 'concerned' about the existence of neurotypicals? We're not diseased.

Don't be so defensive. I just thought it very strange that 11+ children in one class have/or are on the path to having some sort of diagnosis. There's only 13 children in my same aged child's class so I would find it concerning if that was replicated on a societal level.

Both.

When you venture out into a public place you have to accept that people might annoy you, because not all people behave in the same way as you.

People being drunk or loutish dick heads and kids being allowed to run absolutely wild with no regard for others is wrong, but what can you honestly do about it?

Some children are loud, some are quiet, parents can't make a loud child be quiet.
Some are inquisitive and talk a lot and ask a lot of questions.
Some kids are messy (parents should clear up any mess).
Some children may have autism, adhd, learning disabilities, and affects how parents will be able to rein them in.

There just needs to be tolerance, understanding and awareness of other people in the same space.

Schools that have a reputation for being nurturing often have a higher proportion of ND children simply because they offer a supportive environment. In my area, School A has very few ND children because School A is shit at supporting them and actively creates a hostile environment in the hopes that their parents will remove them. School B and School C have a high proportion of ND pupils, many of them in-year transfers from School A, and are known to be really good with children who have additional needs.

A bit of both. I don't mind children crying/shouting/running around, my main gripes are actually adults watching TV or listening to music without headphones, loud phone calls or eating smelly food!

Well there's more than 13 kids in the class so that's where the difference lies. You also probably have no idea which dc are nd or have other asn as you don't work there

Both answers are right. Children shouldn't be actively disruptive, messy, loud, etc in public spaces but at the same time, they're children. They're learning how to act in public and an inevitable part of that is going to involve them sometimes behaving in a negative way (or what others perceive as negative based on their own individual notions of what is or isn't acceptable).

A little bit of tolerance and minding your own business goes a long way.

People would do well to remember public transport is public. Children exist and with that comes certain noises and probably more mess.

Parents should make an effort to parent their child and teach them how to behave in public, but this doesn't always result in the child behaving perfectly in all situations.

If a child makes a mess I would expect the parent to clean it up. But some mess and noise is to be expected on public transport

Grown men manspreading, or throwing their rubbish everywhere. Or grown adults being so drunk they vomit is another story.

It comes down to basic consideration and common sense, which sadly the majority of the general public lack which is why public transport can be so utterly grim.

I have a toddler. Sometimes she has a total meltdown, and I hug and comfort her but I long ago stopped feeling embarrassed because I am doing the best I can, and I still need to get home. She cant help it.
Sometimes she likes to shriek like a dolphin, and that is when I step in and distract her to use a quieter voice.

Both adults and children can behave atrociously (although the latter should still fall on the adult to manage.)

Dont eat smelly food. Dont have loud phone conversations. Use headphones. Dont put your bag on a seat. Get up and move when people who need the seat get on.

And christ, I cant believe I have to type this - do not clip your nails.

Flawed thread. The two options aren't mutually exclusive.

I have made a naughty, noisy child get off the bus, and wait until he could be quiet and well behaved before getting back on (2 buses later). He NEVER did it again.

You are both right. Parents should be teaching their children manners, how to behave but as they are children sometimes they will forget and misbehave. Toddlers really don't know how to behave whereas sen aside, school age kids shouldn't be shouting and screaming

What even is neurotypical? How do you determine if one is NT?

One, age 6. Never had a meltdown but has been loud in public, I just ask her not to and make sure she knows why.

You have one of these. Biddable children. I had a friend with one and she was utterly lovely to me and my not-biddable child. Her DH used to try to give me helpful hints on parenting because they knew it all with their well-behaved child. My friend used to say, "you do twice the parenting I do for half the result". Sympathetically! Then they had their third. She screamed from the second she was born until she was about 3. He then admitted he had no skills at all.

You think you are a better parent. You may just be a lucky one.

I used to get annoyed at the nanny state type propaganda aimed at parents for things I thought were extremely obvious, but I think I forgot that the majority of adults are just pretty thick (at best) and shit parents at worst. This week I have seen:

Toddler drinking full fat coke in his pram on the bus
Parent leaving the baby and the buggy unattended while she sat up the back scrolling her phone
Numerous parents running across the traffic with their small children being dragged behind
Unattended children at softplay jumping on babies in the under 3 area (common occurrence, i always step in and tell them to get out)

Its only Tuesday!

It does sound like op’s dd is biddable. I was friendly with a woman, who had a ds, who could sit at a restaurant table for a couple of hours playing with his toys age 3. My dd was a demon, more like the energetic needs of a typical boy than girl.

I've not heard the phrase but she's sat in restaurants since being a baby and always been ... I don't want to say well behaved because she was a baby but maybe she's just used to it? Also being just her and me so much of the time I can talk to her and she will listen.

Maybe it's just her temperament then I don't know. She's got upset before but she comes out of it pretty quickly.

Yes, it's temperament.

DD was like a ball of energy all the time. We used to go to the beach to run her like a dog every day, including December. Hours and hours of running, climbing, swimming, digging. She never stopped, never looked back, no fear, no off switch.

It's not that I don't think sitting nicely is important, it was just impossible. My favourite restaurant, I think we eventually took her when she was about 5. The very proper French maitre-d' knew us and I said, "just make the throat cutting motion when we aren't OK and we will leave immediately". That's how much we managed our shit in public.

You aren't a better parent, you just got an easier child. Please look kindly at the less lucky parents. A lot of them are trying but can't fight every single battle or all their child hears is "no". ALL THE TIME.