Debate over children in public places

[mavismorpoth]

Friend said when you take public transport you have to expect you will hear things like screeching children, see mess, and shouting etc.

I said you have a duty as a parent to ensure your children learn how to act in public and not make mess or screech or shout where it's controllable.

We disagreed.

IABU - if you take public transport you put up and shut up because children and families can be loud and messy

IANBU - as a parent it's a duty to keep our children under a semblance of control in public and not make excessive noise or mess

YANBU but will no doubt be flamed by people who don't think their precious DC should ever be told to dial it down, and/or the "what about special needs" brigade.

I think anyone sensible knows that babies cry, toddlers have tantrums, and some disabilities aren't visible. However, most children are neurotypical and by the time they are old enough for school, they should be able to sit nicely and moderate their voices in public. It is our job to help them with that (this also means bothering to talk to/engage with them rather than ignoring them).

Since my DC has been around 2 and a half, I do make them get off the bus if they're moaning, screaming or generally being annoying. We either walk home or sit and wait for the next bus (London, so usually 10-15 minutes max). It's very effective - I've only had to actually get off the bus with DC twice, the threat is usually enough to stop the behaviour.

That said, I agree with you about drunk people - I find drunk groups singing loudly on public transport much more annoying and intimidating than children acting out.

In London rush hour, commuters often do seem to expect absolute quiet on trains/tubes, so children making ordinary child noise (playing I spy, speaking a bit loudly) do seem to attract quite a lot of disapproval, which I ignore.

Yes this is why I chose the two extremes because my friend disagreed with me that any control should be asserted over children in favour of 'well you're in public so expect anything' whereas I was 'well you're in public so behave yourself'

It's a bit of both. You have to take children to those places in order to teach them how to behave in those places.

You know your own kids best, I have a nearly 6yo who is generally very "well behaved" but often wears ear defenders so as a result talks slightly louder, and can get overwhelmed and come across as rude when overstimulated. (Generally I find that adults are worse behaved than children!)

What a goady post.

I always think that we should teach our Children from a very young age that they shouldn’t disturb or take away enjoyment from other people. It’s respect

well it's both isn't it? If you are out and about among people, and also depending on when and where, you are going to have to handle Other People And Their Noise And Behaviour.

Also, if you are out and about among people, and also depending on when and where, you should behave appropriately (eg. Don't stand up waving a football scarf at that bit in Turandot and don't expect a load of people in football shirts at a football stadium not to bellow along to that bit from Turandot and so on)

Somewhere in the middle of course. Some noise and mess is inevitable and some is excessive.

Yes I agree with you, also it's 60% in my favour. I'm glad to help anyone and have spoken to people's children when appropriate like hello, what are you up to etc. if mum is struggling. But I am talking about the ones who just run completely ragged. My friend is by no means chavvy but when it comes to children she thinks they can do what they like really, she loves them and thinks every one is a precious angel who can do no wrong, which is nice.

So you’ve got one child OP and that makes you an expert. Well let me tell you, I’ve got two and they are both completely different. One has never had a tantrum. The other was a complete nightmare as a toddler and the tantrums continued passed the toddler stage. He is much better now at 9 but there was no magic fix. One of the key differences between my two DCs was language skills. One could talk fluently by two the other took much longer before he could hold a decent conversation and make himself understood. Stop judging OP. All children are not alike.

How do children learn how to behave in public without going in public places?
Should they only be allowed in them if they don't get it wrong sometimes?
What if one person's idea of a reasonably well-behaved child (e.g. talking at a normal volume) is another person's incessant chattering?

'Most' children aren't necessarily NT. I work in a primary 1 class and already 5 of the dc have a diagnosis age 4 and 5. 2 more have referrals around 4 more are on the radar not to mention the ones that show later who are currently masking. That's a pretty large chunk of the class and that's not including physical or emotional reasons for loudness or seemingly unruly behaviour

Same here. Kids are the least offensive!

@Lozzybear do you have my children? I could have written this world for word 😅

It's not a situation anyone can win really. If your children sit silently and still people are going to judge that they're not being allowed to act like children. If they're loud and playing around they're too much and need to stop.

There is no happy medium, somone will always judge the way you raise your children and they way they act in in public.

Absolutely agree with this.

Most' children aren't necessarily NT. I work in a primary 1 class and already 5 of the dc have a diagnosis age 4 and 5. 2 more have referrals around 4 more are on the radar not to mention the ones that show later who are currently masking. That's a pretty large chunk of the class and that's not including physical or emotional reasons for loudness or seemingly unruly behaviour

That's very strange. What's going on there? Over pathologisation? I'd be concerned at those numbers. At that rate if over half the kids end up with some form of diagnosis will the meaning of "neurotypical" have to change?

@liveforsummer LOL. I think it’s pretty common but it did take me by surprise when DC2 turned into the toddler from hell!

I also agree with people’s comments that children are not the worst offenders. I have a friend who is cabin crew for a major airline and she always says give her a plane load of kids any day. It’s the adults that cause her the real problems. I have been subjected to a few drunken idiots on planes over the years and I would agree with her. I do not feel threatened by a two year old having a tantrum but I have felt threatened by adults on planes (and other forms of public transport).

tbh it's a pity more people don't take more children to more places. If they had there wouldn't be hordes of adults who have no idea how to behave in restaurants, theatres and so on

Your options are too extreme.

You try to control your children, but children aren’t robots and can be unpredictable.
I generally take the view that 99% of parents are doing their best, so if I see a parent struggling and I am able to in the moment I usually offer a hand or a supportive word- it’s hard. We don’t need to make it harder for each other.

Kids are learning though? So while learning they will do those things!

I don't mind as long as parents are making some effort to manage their children's behaviour. It's when they are sitting messing with their phone while their children disrupt others that it becomes annoying - in fairness, I have only seen that once or twice on public transport.

These conversations are always just unhelpful and judgemental. You can't possibly know everyone's circumstances and I'm fairly sure that most all parents do their best to not let their children act up in public. No one enjoys that.
but it's people who think parents should "control their children better" that make people feel like shit.
my dc is autistic but you wouldn't know to look at him.
I frequently end up in years when my child is "acting up" in public because I just can't cope with the added pressure of people staring and tutting and judging when I'm already trying everything I can.

Of course people also judge parents for letting their children have screens at tables in restaurants or on public transport (with headphones so not disturbing anyone) etc too. Can't win really.

@Theroad No because 'neurotypical' still means neurotypical and 'neurodiverse' still means neurodivese, no matter how many of us there is.