How do you enjoy life with so many responsibilities?

[Carfeulyay]

I’m feeling a bit hopeless, had a horrible week at work, my partners been in surgery and diagnosed with liver disease, my three kids are kids and need their needs met and I’ve been feeling for a few months - where is there room for joy?

Im constantly tired (thanks to 5am starts with my 2yo) constantly needed for cooking, cleaning, shopping and general mental load, trying to juggle a team of staff and do my own job which is challenging so I log on most nights when kids in bed.

is this just life? Grin and bear it for the next 10 years?!

how do you have a joyful life with kids, jobs and life admin?!

Where has this mentality come from that work outside of the home is more valuable than caring for our own children?

I had my children late, so had already worked pretty damn hard for over 20 years. Now I’m supposed to add to that workload with parenting?
I say no. We need a balance, and society should do more to enable one parent to look after their own children. Does not have to be the woman. Once BFing was done, obviously only the woman can do that, I’d be ok with doing a couple of days of work so their father could enjoy more days with them too. I’d rather do the childcare though, as I enjoy it.

I wish people were a bit more open-minded about work life balance. So many have bought into work = value.

I am a SP so have not got the luxury of the above, though he does pay maintenance and has them EOW. I supplement that with WFH PT, but the majority of my time is spent on my children. I don’t need to tell them I work for them to think I have value. They are enough. Work does not define us.

I’d rather my kids travel the world than had careers just to build into the drudgery of work eat sleep repeat til you’re dead soon after retirement. Obviously they need jobs to pay for travel, but this whole slog your guts out mentality, no, that is not what I want for them at all.

I also will be advising that they don’t have children til they are very comfortable financially – house paid off, and investments so that they don’t have to both work full time when they have kids. Or even if they don’t have kids.

I didn't until my DC were grown and I got a divorce.

It doesn't help those who have DC and or a spouse now.

What did you think marriage and being a mother would be like before it happened?

Hopefully as time goes on, society will truly support parenthood and getting married and having children won't be seen as the default thing to do for women.

"Having two hands is most efficient. You can type more easily than using one hand and you can do many more tasks effectively if you have two hands."

And people with only one hand should then do what?

I'd hope they'd not have some smug idiot telling them that it's their own fault and they should have chosen a better body to occupy.

I'm ruthlessly organised. I'm still miserable.

@bingbummy I can see what you mean. I ask why the 50s were so bad because it is everybodies go to insult when you dare go against the modern grain. My thoughts towards it are that it was a time where people were more content with their roles because they were set. Although I think it is good to see women educated further and having the ability to earn themselves a career I wonder how many women were genuinely distressed with not having those prospects back then? It’s something I’d be interested in hearing from older generations.

My outlook definitely stems from my mum who stayed home and looked after us all and the home. I always felt so lucky to never come home to an empty house as a child/teen. She worked when she wanted to but knew the pressure to stay at a job was never there and could quit should she need to for health and mental wellbeing. Her mum worked part time but still cared for her family.

I always think that I can always return to work once my children are less dependent on me and I’ll still have plenty of time to build a career for myself. But I would be heartbroken if I didn’t carve my life to fit in with being a stay-at-home mum. It has come with many sacrifices but all worth it in my eyes.

Marry someone near, tidy, organised and dependable. Don't do this and triple your stress load.

@user627494927

I ask why the 50s were so bad because it is everybodies go to insult when you dare go against the modern grain. My thoughts towards it are that it was a time where people were more content with their roles because they were set.

They really weren’t more content with their roles though.

If people had been more content with their roles the sexual and feminist revolutions of the 60s and 70s would never have happened.

I agree that the “the 50s called” has become a rather clichéd insult and yes there were some women who were content only being homemakers but it’s been widely documented the extent to which many women felt frustrated and hide bound by these very narrow roles. My grandmother was bearing children in the 40s and 50s: having gained a first from Cambridge she was then forced to give up working because it wasn’t the done things for women from a certain strata of society to work and she was absolutely miserable. Her mental health really suffered as a result of a general feeling of wastage of her intellect and her ability.

The fact some women want to stay at home with their children does not mean the clock should be wound back for all women or that society should only support families with this strict division of labour.

Have max 2 kids and have them close together so you minimise pre-school pain years. It’s like asking to have your prison sentences run concurrently rather than consecutively. Once they don’t need constant supervision weekends become at least partially fun again.

I think with your partner having surgery and liver disease, it's no wonder you feel down and overwhelmed right now, I've found if things are kind of ok on the health front, then being organized and running the house and working works ok, but once you put emotional stress, sleepless nights and uncertainty into the picture with illness and health problems, it becomes much harder, especially if you are in the menopause/peri.

This probably won't help the Op right now (sorry for your husband's illness OP), but one thing I would advise parents of young children to do is train them to pull their weight.
I was at lunch with a friend at her house, the 10 yr old boy started to stack plates when we had finished, and she said to him to stop, she would do that, he should go and play. Just why?

A five year old can put their laundry in a basket in their bedroom and put their plate by the sink after eating.
An eight year old can set the table, bring their laundry basket downstairs (if it is not too big), and sweep the kitchen floor.
A ten year old can put the washing machine on and run the vacuum round.
A twelve year old can do a sink full of washing up if you don't have a dishwasher.

None of this should be rewarded with money: you are expecting them to help the family and training them to be fully functioning adults.

It used to be (and still is in many countries) that an extra child was an extra worker from about the age of 7-8. Of course, I am not advocating for child labour in factories etc., but I think in many homes today we have swung too far in the opposite direction and children don't have enough responsibilities.

By being organised OP and try not to think to far ahead otherwise I get overwhelmed with it all.
I have 3 DC's and my youngest is 11 so I made sure I get enough zzz's in. If I get 6 or 7 hours then I am fine. I remember it well having no sleep with a 2 year old and I need my sleep to function.

My elderly MIL moved in with us and she has dementia so life is pretty full on at the moment. My DH works none stop and I have recently given up my job to look after my MIL. I am a carer and it made sense for me to care for her at home then pay carers to come in. If I think to far ahead, I will worry but then I just take one day, week at a time. We are generally a happy family unit apart from a grumpy teenage DD. I meal plan which helps and when DH is home he is great and pulls his weight.

Surely the fact that her son started stacking plates without being asked shows that this is a very normal part of life for him. She probably said ti go and play so she could enjoy some adult company

Aside from the operation, how much of the load does DH take on? Even if there's issues physically with him doing stuff, how much of the mental load does he share? I'd guess this and work is the issue.

If there's too much work to do in a day, you need to talk to your manager, work smarter or look elsewhere.

The reality is that it is not sustainable OP.

You have 3 young kids and a sick partner who I assume is not able to contribute to childcare/housework/home admin?

Something has to give.

If I were you I would look at switching to part-time hours or at least request some leave to deal with immediate crisis of your partner having serious health issues.

I think women seem to be expected to do everything: look after several kids, sick relatives, have a responsible full-time job, keep a spotless home.

It simply is not possible to do that without destroying your physical and mental health and being miserable most of the time.

So you have to learn that you can't expect perfection and you might not be able to do it all.

I agree with you.

Where has this mentality come from that work outside of the home is more valuable than caring for our own children?

Its not that work outside the home is more “valuable” than caring for our own children. But the reality is that the only way to get remunerated for caring for your own children is for someone else (your husband or partner) to “pay” you to raise them by supporting you financially. There is no other model available.

Thus if you don’t want to work you are forced to rely on the goodwill and propriety of a man to support you which is like playing Russian Roulette.

It’s nothing to do with “value” in a moral sense it’s simple mathematics.

People alway bring this question of “value” into these discussions as if working mums deliberately sought to devalue mums who remain at home but it’s really irrelevant as to what value as ascribed to these roles. There is no way to “value” raising your own children other full time other than through financial dependency on a man (unless you are independently wealthy).

A lot of us are not prepared to put all our financial eggs in such a risky basket just for a vague sense of “value”.

I agree with @bingbummy we have two small children I stay at home and look after them and our home. My husband has a well paid job so I am fortunate to have this choice.

there was a point some time ago when I was determined to go back to work because I felt I needed my contribution to our family to be greater.

for us it didn’t work. I was doing two things and not giving my all to either.

i appreciate this isn’t the case for others

Yes this. You’re in a difficult period at the moment and it’s okay to acknowledge that and not berate yourself for not skipping through daisies right now.

I’m exceedingly organised and enjoy my job (part time) but am not often full of joy right now. I married a very dependable man but he died from a non lifestyle caused cancer in his 30s. And my eldest is not suited to the school system (adhd, dyslexia) so getting him through secondary is proving tough. And grief goes on.

We’re allowed to find things hard, and look for little joys and chinks of light. Don’t compare yourself with those having an easier time of it.

ts not that work outside the home is more “valuable” than caring for our own children. But the reality is that the only way to get remunerated for caring for your own children is for someone else (your husband or partner) to “pay” you to raise them by supporting you financially. There is no other model available

And this needs to change.

We need another model.

If we paid a parent either a mother or father to stay at home and raise their children up until at least school age and thereafter offered excellent before/after school care and opportunities for the child AND subsidised holiday care (potentially shortening very long summer holidays as well) for those that then enter the work place. We could take the pressure away from childcare provision which is supplemented anyway by the government, the care a parent can give a child is usually far superior to that of a childcare provider.
The early years of the child, the foundation years are spent with at least one loving parents rather than a rolling cast of providers I wonder if the benefits would be soon be seen for all families? It would take the pressure off young families trying to juggle their finances and childcare, and other family commitments. Our communities would be enhanced again by the young being back in the heart of the community - there is help and company for the elderly, a thriving busy heart again outside of the weekends.

Of course the parents where both wanted to continue careers outside of parenthood for a few years and can not take a break should be offered subsidised childcare, of very high quality and would also have an army of other parents around to help. We could start to function as an intertwined functioning society again where we are not being driven into the ground by the exhaustion of just keeping the bills paid.

Relationships are a game of roulette.
I really wish people would drop the men=russian roulette.
I have agency to do what I want when I want. No one, man or woman changes that, I take responsibility and accountability for my life and inter personal relationships. Hedging your life to mitigate what if, is very negative.

I don't believe everyone as a whole has it all, routines and plans are dashed all the time. However overloading one's life leaves no room for manoeuvre.

I tend to agree, to an extent.

I don’t think it’s viable for both parents to work full time unless they earn enough money to outsource childcare and housework. But I’m not sure that’s in the best interests of the children.

In an ideal world both parents would work part time.

Another possibly unpopular view - I don’t think it’s viable to have more than 2x children. That’s just asking for stress and exhaustion. 1 or 2 is far more sensible.

Actually if you look at the statistics, younger people are increasingly no longer interested in having children. My friend group consists of mainly women in their late 20s, and early 30s, and the common consensus as to why they don't want kids? Men.

It's a lose-lose for women.

1. You have kids, you either have to contend with being dependent on your partner who (maybe we're all cynical but having seen most of my colleagues in the city I think there's quite a bit of truth in this) will likely cheat on you, often with someone younger. After which you either have to live life as a single parent or look the other way while your partner devalues you and humiliates you.
2. You have kids, decide to split things 50/50. Except that it's not 50/50 because there are very few men who will put in the effort at home in child raising and housekeeping.

@Kissingfrogs25

If we paid a parent either a mother or father to stay at home and raise their children up until at least school age and thereafter offered excellent before/after school care and opportunities for the child AND subsidised holiday care (potentially shortening very long summer holidays as well) for those that then enter the work place.

If you paid a parent to stay at home and raise their children up until at least school age... where to start with this:

a) Do you seriously think voters would support a government that undertook to subsidise half of all couples to remain at home for five years? No government has yet even agreed to subsidise childcare, let alone subsidise taking about a quarter of the population out of the economy. It's never going to happen.
b) Which half of the couple do you think would be staying at home for the first five years. Yep, no prizes for guessing in 90% of cases it would be the woman (as they are overwhelmingly the lower-paid partner) which would further entrench the pay gap and the gender divisions within households. Oh, and you would then face a whole generation of women struggling to get back into the workforce after the five year gap when their male partners had made massive strides in their careers.
c) Do you think women who were paid to remain at home would get the support they needed from their menfolk?
d) What would happen to those women who went against the grain and chose to work anyway? They would be even more marginalised in work than they are now. I would be beyond furious if my daughter were pressured to take time off work just when she was getting into her stride.

I'm totally in favour or subsidising childcare but paying women not work is like something out of the Handmaid's Tale. No thanks very much.

I've said a million times on here that working and parenting are incompatible and one parent should do the work, one the parenting and house stuff

Maybe that works for your family, but it definitely wouldn't work for mine. Neither of us would be happy to stop work completely, and we both want to be actively involved in parenting our DC. I don't see why either of us "should" have to give that up.

Well, I love having responsibilities. Certainly prefer it to being a child and having no say or control over my own life.

Hard to enjoy much when you’re exhausted though OP and a 5am daily start is a bit early, I’d work on that ASAP, you’ll be much happier with more rest and a calmer start to the day. Look into some respectful sleep training/learning groups or talk to a sleep specialist and get your 2yr old sleeping in til a more reasonable time, you don’t have to just go with getting up whenever they fancy it! We have had a designated wake time since birth and currently we go and get our 2/almost 3yr old up for the day at 7 which is lovely as it means I can get up earlier but still it’s only 6am, then have a chilled start to the day before parenting begins.