To ask if this is normal for a teenager?

[Grumpbump]

I will start by saying I never had a very good relationship with my mum so I don’t really know what’s ‘normal’

I have a 13 year old daughter, I would say we are close, she tells me about boys friends difficult things and she expresses how she feels pretty well normally. Recently her attitude has been a bit of a problem but really we talk and I make it clear she can always talk to me no judgment.

I check her phone and I recently saw text messages to her best friend saying she can’t speak on the phone because I’m here. She also text saying it’s like my mum doesn’t understand me, I can never talk to her. Is this normal? She has her privacy, she sits on the phone to her friend in her room. Is this something I should speak to her, I feel quite sad she feels like she can’t talk to me

I know a family like this. A question of privacy apparently. I’m talking about 11 and 12 ffs. I gave up trying to persuade them and reporting stuff to them as it wasn’t dealt with properly.

It's perfectly normal, and if you aren't checking younger teens' phones, you aren't parenting them properly.

Quite. Scary that so many let their very young DC loose with their phones/internet access. Have you people seen the internet?! Bad, bad parenting.

Sorry, but that didnt save Molly Russell
Her parents checked her phone, had access to her emails via the family computer and monitored her internet activity and SM accounts:

“I also looked briefly at Molly's YouTube account and saw a… pattern - many normal teenage 'likes' and 'follows', but a similar high number of disturbing posts concerning anxiety, depression, self harm and suicide.
"On the family computer I saw that Molly continued to receive emails after her death from another social media platform, Pinterest.
“I knew Molly had an Instagram account and a Twitter account as I also had accounts on these platforms and we 'followed' each other, as did other members of the family.
“Molly closed the Twitter account of hers that we were all following and it was only after her death that I found out she had opened another account on Twitter.”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62981964

And there it is, the secret Twitter account that had her tweets for help and suicidal thoughts….

OP, it may be worth raising with the Head of KS or year manager, just to check if her behaviour has changed at school or if teachers have any concerns.

I’m sure most would not have says it was ok to go into a teens room, locate their diary and read it 20-30 years ago and this is the same really.

It is not even remotely similar, let alone "the same". A diary doesn't talk back to you. A diary can't blackmail you into sending indecent images of yourself, or send unsolicited indecent images to you, it can't bully you, threaten you or give you tips on how to starve yourself without your parents noticing. A diary doesn't give you access to hard-core porn that normalises violent acts as part of a sexual relationship. A diary can't give you step by step instructions in various methods of suicide and show you images and videos normalising and even glamourising self-harm. A diary doesn't introduce you to older men claiming to be teenagers, who even have voice changer apps that make them sounds like kids. Last year many of our students saw a video of a man shooting himself in the head, they didn't go looking for it, it was hidden inside innocuous sounding Tik Toks claiming to be about cats, dancing or baking.

A diary doesn't have the potential to place kids at risk of harm and the online world does.

I think you're reading too much into it. Lots of teenagers like to play the "I'm so misunderstood by my parents" card in order to look cool to their friends. If you feel like you have a close and open relationship then that is probably a more accurate reflection of things than what your DD is telling her friends.

Perfectly normal. I wouldn’t worry

Give her some privacy! What kid wants their mum listening in to their conversations, no matter how banal? Kids can't imagine you have ever experienced what they are feeling, and actually don't want you to know how they are feeling a lot if the time.
Just be there, be non judgmental, listen listen listen if she ever wants to talk (do NOT butt in with your own thoughts/experiences - do NOT analyse or try to explain to them what they are feeling, just listen and offer gentle advice IF asked).
I would not dream of reading my children's texts.

All safeguarding advise recommends monitoring teenage phone and internet use, even for the teens who outwardly present as being safe and sensible.

I've done a lot of fairly high level online safety and safeguarding training over the years and it is advised by every group be it police, safeguarding teams, anti bullying groups, CEOP etc.

Waiting til a child is showing signs of online abuse or grooming is too late. The damage is done by thy stage.

It's in no way bizarre for the OP to be monitoring the mobile phone and internet use of a 13 year old child. It's way more bizarre to not be doing so, and an awful lot more dangerous for the child too.

CEOP
Safeguarding teams in local authorities
Police
Anti Bullying charities and campaigns
Safer Internet groups

Yes, @Abraxan - that's exactly where I get my guidance from.

Sounds normal.

I always got on well with my parents, but between the ages of 12-15, I pretty much felt like they were aliens, who didn't have an earthly clue what it was like to been a teenager!

I can imagine some people here would be horrified that the school laptops have rigorous safeguarding software on - that tracks keystrokes, not just what is saved or accessed...

I am quite glad about it, it has raised a couple of searches by DD that have opened useful discussions, including about suicidal thoughts and exploring her sexuality. It has enabled the school to work with me and DD to make sure she is (and feels) safe and supported, and can work through issues she is struggling with.

The agreement re: her phone is that I have access at random. I check less and less as she gets older (she is now 15), as by the time she is an adult she'll have to be able to manage it by herself.

This.

In all honesty when I see posters telling parents not to check their 12 year old offspring 's randomly from time to time I question the agenda of those giving such preditor friendly advice!

Either the posters are 12 year olds themselves, or they have a reason to want parents to believe that they shouldn't do what they can to protect pre teen children from grooming, cyber bullying etc. Or they're at best dangerously naive.

I wouldn’t worry about what she’s saying about you to her friends. Mine knows she can use me as an excuse if she doesn’t want to meet up or wants to come home early…. She’s even snap chatted me asking me to send a message on another tool to say she needs to come home for xyz….. I’m her safety net and happy to be so, it means she’s secure with you and just wants to fit in/not feel the odd one out if she says slightly off things about you.

Checking the phone is fine, but surely no self-respecting adolescent wants to talk to their mum! We're you never a teenager yourself?

Separation from parents it’s a normal stage of development. This is how she becomes her own person. The secrets she keeps from you might be small things, crushes, or just complaining about her “boring old mum”.

Let her be, tell her you trust her to come to you if she needs to. harder to say than do. You told her you’re going to check her communications for her protection but not to suffocate her. If she knows you might have seen those texts but you don’t ask her about it, I think her trust in you would only grow.

It’s what you have instilled into her until now, and the relationship you had with her until now, that are going to count for most going forward, now you need to give her some room, unless you want to damage the relationship you’ve build.

I agree with you that you need to monitor her online presence and her communications. My DD is small but I’m thinking I won’t give her a phone or allow her on social media when the time comes. I’ll probably have to allow her eventually, due to peer pressure but I will monitor as well if it comes to that.

the internet is very dangerous, it’s like leaving your child alone in a big place where pedos, and other horrible ppl mix with children, often pretending to be children themselves. Plus all the “fads” that she could get under the influence of, purging, losing weight, becoming obsessed with how she looks, etc. I am amazed parents expose their kids to this.

Discovereads - I’m sorry but that is naive. There are plenty of teens who have had excellent guidance from parents and who are happy to chat to them and have generally good relations with them who still end up in a tricky situation online because they’re being pressured or influenced by people who do not have their best interests at heart.
If mine wants to write down private thoughts he has plenty of paper - and I wouldn’t dream of rifling through his shelves reading what he’s written. We don’t fully read what he’s written online either - but we are following advice from school head of year and the school liaison PC who expert knowledge and much experience. The PC asked whether we would let a 13 year old go into the city centre without knowing who they were with - it’s the same thing.

Yes, well equally there are dead children whose parents checked their phones and monitored all the SM accounts they thought their child had. But then the child had secret accounts.

So, the advice to monitor phones and monitor all SM accounts giving your child zero privacy is flawed in the very least for giving parents a false sense of security. Because it is my experience that teens want privacy and they will get it one way or another. But if you make it a punishable offence to have a private life online, it is my opinion that they are then less likely to come to you when anything problematic comes up.

My DH is also a cybercrime expert in child exploitation, grooming and child abuse images/peadophile rings. He did his criminal justice degree specialising in this and as part of his dissertation read numerous studies on the subject. He then worked for many years in the field doing forensic analysis and tracking down child abuse/sex offenders/peadophile rings. So, our route is not naive but equally as well informed as yours, we have just chosen a different path.

And it worked for us and our four DC. As youngest is now 18. Did they ever encounter distressing or dodgy stuff? Yes, but they came to us. Were any of them cyberbullied and sent rape/death threats? Yes, but they came to us and we went to the police. So it’s not a case of our kids leading a charmed existence either.

Wow @Discovereads your husband sounds impressive! I disagree with your post though. Our dc can communicate online (what's app, no social media), we try and have an open and respectful communications but children are extremely gullible, even the very smart ones or especially the smart ones 🤔! That's why you keep talking with them, looking out for their mood and checking their phone every now and again, these are not mutually exclusive. By checking my dc's various WA groups I have found out all sorts and can advise them accordingly. I only mentioned something when absolutely necessary and it helps them develop their own media and communication skills. There is too much at stake and people would be foolish not to check on phone messages, not all the time, but now and again. Friends of mine have digital systems which notify them when their dc use red flag words in their messages this has helped keep them out of trouble as they were getting involved in bullying another dc at school. Support was put in place for all involved.

I was surprised to read the foul, inappropriate and mob like messages of so many year 6 and year 7 children whose parents are clearly not monitoring their dc's messages 😂. These are kids from lovely middle class families at amazing schools, state and private, whose parents are proud of their amazing academic and posting achievements.

I don't want there to be a digital record of my dc where they use horrible language (so many kids do, check and you'll see for yourself), which they can later be bullied with. You can't completely control it but you can try and supervise it as with everything else, there is a middle way.

Ha!

These are kids from lovely middle class families at amazing schools, state and private, whose parents are proud of their amazing academic and sporting achievements.Their posting is not amazing 😂

She doesn't have her privacy if you're going through her texts.

@HellloooooWorld
Its fine to disagree, I just wish posters would lay off the name calling.

Posters are concerned for their dc's privacy. But ironically, the whole notion of privacy is completely misleading. I hope you are aware that there is no privacy when your dc communicate online? Anyone can potentially read what your dc's posts. Their messages routinely get forwarded, screenshot, and shown around. Snap Inc, Meta, and all the other extremely powerful Californian and Chinese media groups hold every bit of your your dc's data, messages, pattern of usage, images, videos, all when they use these platforms. There is no privacy as such.

Yes we know. Cybercrime expert DH. I also worked in software design project management for the military for several years.

Our DC knew from the first time they used the internet as well. That everything is an electronic tattoo attached to them for life. Also taught them too about VPNs and burner emails as well. You have to teach them the tricks of the groomers…so an IP address & email showing Australia could really be someone two streets over willing to abduct them from the school gates. So to never ever feel like it’s “safe” to give out personally identifying info. Taught them how to strip geolocation out of photos…as even a photo of a tree or our dog in the garden can be traced back to where we live.

Many parents don’t do a full safety education for their DC. We did.

This doesn’t mean that privacy from parents can’t exist.