Are people that want zero immigration racist?

[equalstime]

People that moan about migrants coming to this county - taking our jobs - taking our houses - draining the medical system - not settling in the first country they reach for asylum- they're racist right?

There will always be an element of migration and when you take account of UK born people that leave and non Uk people that enter our country, the net figure is no doubt reasonable. They are often willing to work and contribute to our society and economy - so why the hostility?

Why not accept as a country that we have en element of migration and embrace that, if not because your views are racist?

We are struggling as it is with lack of housing, lack of schools, lack of proper public transport, the NHS is drowning… it’s not racism. It’s a very sad reality.

It’s a tiny world, there are too many humans. Everyone is going to have to budge up and make room.
Why does being born in a certain place give you exclusive rights to that place? It’s a bit mad if you really think about it.

I don't class myself as a "highly skilled worker". I class my DH as one, as a PhD educated person in specialised computer security. And if I had to leave the country due to being ineligible for a Visa, he would have come with me and taken his skillset with him. But I certainly wouldn't say that I am "unskilled" as a teacher...

We are quite densely populated but don’t top EU or many other nations when it comes to being crowded. The U.K. has an overall average of 265 people per square km. The UK is fourth on the list of countries in the European Union behind Malta, The Netherlands and Belgium. We aren’t terribly overcrowded.

We are underfunded and money is being diverted from public services to the pocket linings of the very wealthy. We perhaps need to support measures to make staying in your home nation more favourable instead of plundering highly qualified staff from poorer nations.
Perhaps our global energy crisis could be averted by investing in solar farms in places like Rwanda and Somalia? That would create wealth and employment in those nations.
Perhaps we could sponsor universities and vocation training colleges in some poorer nations to increase their wealth and status whilst also offering opportunities to our young people? Imagine the benefits for all if we sponsored 200 young plumbing and engineering apprentices to broaden their skills by learning as they extended clean water access to many areas of the world devastated by drought and enteric disease.
If we supported all to have better lives there would be a reduced need for economic migrancy and greater global security.

We need to be selective about migrants we welcome. Yes, we need more Doctors/nurses/scientists/engineers - but I doubt they’re the ones paying people smugglers.

I personally also feel it’s morally reprehensible to steal highly-skilled medical staff from the developing world.

It’s all well and good having “all the feels”, but don’t come crying when you can’t find anywhere to live/see a doctor/get a sibling place at a school.

I have no issue with immigration, I work with people from across the world in the NHS.

What I do have a problem with is the lack of services for people who have nothing and have on too many occasions experienced torture. There are nowhere near enough support services to help them. I’m left floundering when I get someone referred to me who speaks little English (all hail language line and other interpretation services) has experienced torture and who needs urgent MH support which isn’t out there.

None of that is the fault of the person but of government.

Those coming in off the boats are being smuggled, many do not know where they will end up. Those that want to come here often do so because they can speak the language or they have family here already. They usually want to work but are not allowed to while their cases are being heard.

And a hotel room in England is far superior to a tent in France. They can lock the door and feel safe.

I gather there are specific arrangements for unaccompanied children. So no child should be disappearing out of a hotel room unless they have been smuggled in by a gang who have managed to say they are responsible for the child. Look at Mo Farah and what he experienced.

@Beecham As for the channel asylum seekers - quite frankly if you've managed to travel here from half way across the globe from a war torn country, then good on you!! You are likely to be a very resourceful and dynamic person, which is exactly what the economy needs!

Err no.
If you've passed through several safe countries on your way here, you're not a refugee, you're an economic migrant who's abusing the system.

The Refugee Convention is only meant to protect those coming directly from the place of persecution. Clearly those crossing from France (a safe and civilised country with a well-functioning asylum system) are not doing so.
As an MP on the influential House of Commons Home Affairs Committee has said: “Anybody coming across in a boat is potentially committing an unlawful act, as well as the people who are facilitating that, because they are not coming directly from a dangerous country”.

imo things will only become more strained as climate change ramps up. How countries respond will depend in part on geography

@Beenaboutabit “This little island is full” is UKIP propaganda.
Do a bit of research about country landmass and population density. It’s just not true.

Err actually it is. We are the second most densely populated country in Europe

unherd.com/2018/03/youll-never-guess-densely-populated-country-europe/

Ignorance is tiring.

No. Your ignorance is tiring

incorrect. they do not have to claim asylum in first country

A different take to this question.
I don't think we are a 'small island', there are huge areas un inhabited. Only 1.4% of the UK landmass is used for housing
Services are stretched at some point because there are not the people to do the work.
We need the immigrants to keep our services, NHS, transport, Social services, Hospitality etc running.
The Covid virus killed about 207,000.
Those escaping their war torn countries by crossing the channel by boat are wanting to come to the UK to work and build a new life. Numbering about 27000 in 2021 and set for 40000 in 2022. They do not come close to replacing those lost to the virus. They live a very difficult life, denied work, until their situation is "regulated". Let them work. Let them contribute to the UK plc.

I guess a lot of views are formed from where people live,it's all very well sitting in your nice four bedroom detached house in a middle class area ,with ample school places for your children in either private schools or nice leafy high achieving schools ,and you can afford private health care etc ,not think high levels of immigration are a problem
It's an entirely different scenario living in a deprived area ,with a high level of immigration, with an all ready over stretched health service , with schools bursting at the seems ,and not enough decent housing it might cloud your view somewhat.

I completely agree.
The same lame old excuses as well e.g. "we are a small island and don't have the services to support ourselves etc etc" ... Wilfully ignoring the fact that it's because we don't have enough workers that we are suffering these service issues.

Spousal visas don't require applicants to be skilled. The expectation is on the existing UK resident, like your husband, to be able to support you.

Only those applying specifically to come here to work need to demonstrate skills.

Have been reading the thread with interest. I agree with pp there has to be a better balance - zero immigration is unreasonable, but net zero is a good idea.

I also think that there needs to be some kind of expectation of immigrants that they assimilate to British culture and language. There shouldn't be areas where women have to conform to Sharia law, for example. If you live in this country, you should conform to its laws and culture, e.g. LGB equality, women's rights etc.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali wrote a book called "Prey: Immigration, Islam, and the Erosion of Women's Rights," where she researches and discusses these issues in depth.

@Seymour5 If my DH had still been a student or was paid less, I would have applied for a working visa, which I wouldn't have qualified for because I am deemed "unskilled".

So how the reason that they come here because of the English language leave us? With that reason as valid yes many would come here and they therefore would have family already here. Do we have a problem then?

@purpleleotard2 Those escaping their war torn countries by crossing the channel by boat are wanting to come to the UK to work and build a new life

Since when has Europe been a 'war-torn country' ? Have I been asleep at the wheel?

One in six boat crossers already claimed asylum elsewhere
In March 2021, the Home Office revealed this eye-opening fact (relating to those who came in small boats during 2019) Thousands of those crossing on boats are failed asylum claimants who have already tried their luck and been rejected in other European countries, such as France, Germany, Greece, Denmark and Switzerland .
Some would have us forget this important context and receive everyone coming as a fresh claimant. This is patently absurd.

Anyone who wants to check this out can read it here - assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/972517/CCS207_CCS0820091708-001_Sovereign_Borders_Web_Accessible.pdf

So it seems that we are being overrun by other countries' rejects.

@purpleleotard2 people from the UK visit Albania as holidaymakers. Why then are Albanians coming here in dinghies, purporting to be seeking asylum? What war are they fleeing?

If anything the government has done nothing to solve this situation with the smugglers. Why?

I immigrated from an EU country 30 years ago. My thoughts:

• There are obvious issues about the fact that the infrastructure (housing, healthcare, schools) has not increased to match the demand. Immigrants tend to live in places that are already highly populated (London and the South East) so of course that places an incredible strain on services there and immigration needs to be managed better because of this
• Most immigrants (and I say that as a Londoner) just want to live a peaceful life, do well and raise their children to do well. But I think it is also a fact that a minority have brought with them issues that led to increased anti-social behaviour and that there can be a refusal to integrate and adopt ''UK values'' (things like understanding you need to show equal respect for women and leave your homophobia at the door and so on).

I do think though that there is still an element of racism there too as people have mentioned already as white immigrants are often treated differently from people from other backgrounds. Although I must say as a white person I have still heard a few xenophobic comments over the decades...but in London it is rare that people are openly hostile as the population is so diverse.

I was very proud when I became a British citizen and I have done everything I could to learn about history and culture and integrate in society. If people have an issue with that, that's their problem, not mine.

Some level of immigration will always be needed to fill gaps in areas like healthcare, medical research, academia and engineering. Some people also choose to start businesses here that will employ local people and bring tax revenue and I don't see anything wrong with that.

What would you like to see them do? It’s a very difficult issue, what options do you see. Genuinely interested as maybe I’m missing what they can do

Things have to be really bad to dissuade people - look at Aus camps used they are harsh places

No I don’t want uncontrolled immigration. I’m living in the south east and we have a housing crisis. No council housing and low housing stock for anyone wishing to buy/rent. That’s even if you could ever afford to buy with the ridiculous house prices. My dd commented how busy everywhere is and it’s true because there are to many people. No gp appts and good luck if you need hospital care you will be waiting years. All in all it’s making the UK an undesirable place to live and it’s not racist to say that.
I guess if your living in your country dwelling in your nice unaffected bubble then of course your view on immigration will be different.
But if your living the reality it’s not so good.

@waffless
If anything the government has done nothing to solve this situation with the smugglers. Why?

You are misinformed.

see p 36 of this document - assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/972517/CCS207_CCS0820091708-001_Sovereign_Borders_Web_Accessible.pdf

Some immigration is inevitable though.people always seem to complain but if in hospital don't mind being tended to by excellent doctors and nurses! The whole point of getting people over was to do jobs with vacancies. The whole team barring the manager in mums care home were foreign .one lady sent all her wages back to her family 👪.!