to prefer a man to pay on the first date?

[partie]

I am a woman. I barely go in first dates. When I do I always offer to split and my offer is genuine, and I become prepared to split but I always prefer they pay for the first date and then I grab the second.

The main reasons for this is that is shows they are not stingy, have a genuine interest in me, and in the future if we became a couple it would signal that they would be willing to help me out should I ever become jobless instead of seeing finances as completely separate. This is security I need from a relationship and it would work both ways.

Do you prefer a man to pay on the first date? I am not asking if men should or are obligated, only what your preference is.

YABU- I prefer to split/ I pay
YANBU - I would prefer the man pays

@Realityloom if a woman works she usually gets to keep most of her money for herself which she usually does spend on herself, the kids or smaller stuff for the house (like decor). They also have a lot more savings than the men usually. I'm just going by the circle of Pakistani working women I know here so of course it will be different for others. I know some women who do contribute towards things like holidays/weekends away only because it's something that they want to do and the husbands' finances don't stretch far enough to pay for everything else and an extra break away.

The women who don't work (like me) just spend the husbands money on everything they buy and some of us have a personal allowance as well if the husband has a good income. I haven't worked since I've been married but I've raised three children and I can safely say I've probably had more disposable income compared to my husband throughout our marriage, even when money was tight.

If you go strictly by Islamic standards then a man has to pay his wife even for breastfeeding the babies and looking after them and for having a maid to do the housework if he can afford it, because those are all seen as jobs. I don't really know anyone who does this although I guess that's where the allowance idea has come from, for married women who don't work.

But im going off on a massive tangent !

Wow, so motherhood is effectively seen as ‘work’ deserving of monetary payment like any other? I can get behind that!

@Cuppasoupmonster yes definitely! At the end of the day , however much we love our kids and want to do all the things for them etc etc, being a mother is hard work and if you're at home raising your kids you have no income otherwise.

Wow, so motherhood is effectively seen as ‘work’ deserving of monetary payment like any other? I can get behind that!

My DB and SIL don't have children and he still pays for everything.

The cowardly OP has fucked off, but the man could say all this too and I doubt anyone would be sympathetic.

Ha yes.

But in the meantime it's been a real eye opener. I'm so glad I'm not dating as it's depressing.

Seems like some women want equality but only as long as it fits. Doesn't sound much like equality to me.

The holiday one was me. When DP did that we'd been going out for a couple of years but weren't even living together yet. The point was that he turned out to be generous despite the "cheap first date" which another poster implied would be a red flag re: stinginess.

We're not married so our finances are still largely separate but I'm sure you'll be relieved to know that these days holidays come out of the joint account.

@ambermorning

Totally agree chocolatecrisps. I would say though. I don't think married couples with separate finances are 'the norm' in the U.K. though. When I read things like, "he paid for the holiday, it's like a totally different world to me too and it's hard to relate. I think maybe people with separate finances are just more likely to post on threads about finances? But I don't know really.

I can't get my head around this 'my money/your money' mentality either. I know a few couples - 2 married, 3 not, who have separate finances, and in every couple HE earns more. He doesn't want to pool finances (unsurprisingly.)

Me and DH have been out with a couple who have been together 17 years - unmarried, She wants marriage, he doesn't. She wanted children, he didn't. Late 40s now. He earns 2-3 times more than her, and I have seen her tipping coins out of her purse to pay for a drink in the pub, while he flashes £20 notes galore. And she shops at Primark while he shops at Next, and does her own hair as she can't afford the hairdresser. HE goes to the hairdresser every 6-8 weeks. I have also seen him steal money from her purse. She thinks she has lost it or spent it. He spends loads on his hobbies and flashy holidays with his mates. (She stays home because she can't afford the exotic holidays.)

His wallet is zipped up tightly while she struggles.

I can't say for certain as I have never asked, but I am guessing he made her pay half on their first date.

Utterly shitty relationship IMO. I wouldn't lower myself to being with a man like this.

As I say, I also know some other couples who have totally separate finances, and he lends her money that she always has to pay back, and he pays for their holiday, and she pays back her share to him weekly. Totally fucking bizarre. Me and DH haven't had separate finances since before we were married.

Some women need to raise their bar, and ditch these shitty excuses for men.

As I said, I am willing to bet every single one of these men, insisted on splitting the bill on the first date, and sat there poring over the bill, with a calculator, making sure he didn't pay for anything he didn't have!

shudder Imagine having such low self esteem that you would stay with a man like this. Grim. And scary. AND depressing!

Equality and equity aren’t the same thing. This is one of those situations where it isn’t the same ‘in reverse’.

So now its not even friends but an "I don't know but bet that".

The bar is really dropping.

But a friend of mine's ex paid for the first date and many after, flowers, chocolate the whole enchilada, until they got married and had a child and she left her job at his request.

She was being love bombed and then suffered years of financial abuse as he was as tight as a duck's arse.

Just goes to show that you can't measure someone from a first date.

Thus proving my point.

If he’s expecting a second date he will probably offer. If not, then going dutch is the norm. So his offer to pay/not pay signals how the date went.

Not really, it cannot be reduced to that. Women give birth. We cannot eradicate primal animal behaviours. What we are doing is trying to do is become more male to fit into a workplace and economy that was developed on a patriarchal system. So men actually get even more advantages. They now have to do less while we continue to do more.

Again, proving my point.

Equality or equity, it only works if it fits your perception of what's equal or fair. You're obviously in the same camp as Cuppa and have already deemed all male/female encounters as inherently unfair or unequal from the outset. Thus leading to the expectation that a man should pay.

I've seen the tiktok video and I get the point but am on the side of those women that don't want to propagate the gender roles that you seem to be firmly against in the first place. It's like you're saying that you want a man to pay because life is unequal and you want more equity. So as a result you're going to perpetuate the same roles you're so critical of. How is that improving anything. So you pay, I pay or we pay 50/50. Either way is fine but it's the expectation that I find distasteful. But each to their own as I guess there's no right/wrong as long as you end up with someone compatible.

Personally I just think it's a bit sad that people go into a first dinner date with this attitude and am glad my OH is/was nothing like this.

Interesting that you're combining both feminist and animal behaviour in the same argument though. Not seen that one before.

@Lunar270

"Equality or equity, it only works if it fits your perception of what's equal or fair. You're obviously in the same camp as Cuppa and have already deemed all male/female encounters as inherently unfair or unequal from the outset. Thus leading to the expectation that a man should pay."

Couldn't agree more.

The idea that were supposed to accept that women are inherently weaker. Fuck that.

I thought we'd passed that marker almost a century ago.

And try spinning that one to Jacinda Ardern, or Angela Merkel.

I bet my house those two aren't measuring a man on "traditional values".

I despair of this thread.

'Equal' does not have to mean 'the same.' It's ok for men and women to have different motivations / needs / perspectives to men and vice versa.

Of course women are weaker, at least physically. Using the ex German chancellor as an ‘example’ isn’t great because she’s hardly an average woman is she? You can’t say men have the upper hand and we live in a patriarchal system, while in the next breath saying women aren’t weaker. They’re one and the same.

You can fight this all you want but your vision of equality just leads to women doing more of the man’s work as well as her own.

@AhNowTed

Personally I want to know, and for my OH to know, that we're equal and have carved out a bubble of equality and equity for ourselves. We can't change what's outside but inside we are in control. I don't see any benefit of entering a relationship on the back foot, irrespective of how society might be.

Absolutely.

Hahah, giving Angela Merkel as an example of true equality - a woman who had to live her life as a man (not raising a family, throwing herself in her career and working ridiculous hours for decades, and conducting herself as a man as a tough politician).
So true equality is women becoming men?

🤦‍♀️

Physically yes of course. Mentally absolutely not.

There are many women leaders both in politics, the workplace and society in general. Normal women, like me and you.

I choose to carry on regardless of the patriarchy. It honestly has never held me back. I work in a male-dominated field, and managed teams of men.

I have two now-adult children, and my DH shares all responsibilities.

The idea that I would sit there like a dope expecting to be paid for, is total anathema to me.

My “vision of equality” means that I don’t accept “my lot”. “Traditional values” can get to fuck.

And in my experience, you reap what you sow.

I hope these shining examples of female politicians aren’t talking about the current PM…

Haha god no! We can agree on that one.

This fixation on cocklodgers is so unhelpful too; it simply fails to recognise that women can have the potential to earn significantly more than men.

A common view amongst successful women is that they strive for a partner that earns even more than them; a couple of people upthread said they would never date anyone that earns less than them. But the corollary of this is that there can never be equity as women will therefore necessarily always earn less than men.

You can use biology, tradition, systemic inequity and examples of poor male behaviour all you like to justify why you continue to expect men to pay the first date. But do not try and bring down those who are unfettered by these constraints and enough please of the bullshit that successful women are just ‘emulating men’.

We literally cannot have it both ways. But one way is regressive and the other is entirely progressive.

@TheHoover so in your view, stay at home mums are ‘regressive’?