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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unqualified NHS staff

184 replies

Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:39

How would you feel about the NHS using unqualified members of staff in a nursing role?

This is being floated at our local hospital, North West region, and it makes me feel really uncomfortable.

What are your opinions?

OP posts:
RebeccaRose92 · 14/10/2022 09:40

I don’t feel comfortable with qualified nurses let alone unqualified

Reallybadidea · 14/10/2022 09:42

I'd need more information. HCAs are unqualified and already do lots of nursing care.

Topgub · 14/10/2022 09:43

So band 2 in a band 5 role?

No.

Terrible idea

I do however think we're going to end up with a band 3/band 4 situation

BaileySharp · 14/10/2022 09:45

I'm not sure paying staff less money is the way to get more people into nursing

ImissyouBR1 · 14/10/2022 09:46

I shudder at the thought.

BUT are you sure they're nurses? Health Care Assistants are not nurses.

I wish "nurse" was a protected job title. Then they'd get the respect and salary they deserve.

(I'm not a nurse!)

Burnt0utMum · 14/10/2022 09:47

RebeccaRose92 · 14/10/2022 09:40

I don’t feel comfortable with qualified nurses let alone unqualified

This.

MarshaMelrose · 14/10/2022 09:47

"Nursing role". What does that mean in practice? Handing out bedpans, fillng up water jugs, helping people to toilets and showering? Or performing medical procedures?
It's,difficult to comment unless the expected role is more defined.

funtycucker · 14/10/2022 09:48

Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:39

How would you feel about the NHS using unqualified members of staff in a nursing role?

This is being floated at our local hospital, North West region, and it makes me feel really uncomfortable.

What are your opinions?

It would depend what you mean by nursing role. In most trusts don't HCA's already do bloods, inserting cannulas, ECG's etc, particularly in A&E?

Cheeseandlobster · 14/10/2022 09:49

Depends what you define as nursing jobs. You don't have to be a qualified nurse to take blood pressure, support with hygiene in bed etc. However anything medication related would be an absolute no for me.

My concern would be no regulatory body like nmc so what would happen if a person was unfit to do this role and could they just move somewhere else to work without this being registered somewhere.

I am an hcp but not a nurse. There were lots of people on my course who were academically great but couldn't do the practical aspect. I also have a family member who is desperate to be a nurse but isn't academic enough. But she really cares and would be amazing as a nurse. She just can't write the uni assignments

So in a long winded way there are pros and cons for this

silverclock222 · 14/10/2022 09:50

Generally found the cleaners and porters are more helpful and the 'qualified' ones are too busy moaning at each other.

Topgub · 14/10/2022 09:50

@MarshaMelrose

You'd have been as well as writing wiping arses.

No nursing role, qualified or not, is that basic.

Caring is complex.

vivainsomnia · 14/10/2022 09:50

In most trusts don't HCA's already do bloods, inserting cannulas, ECG's etc, particularly in A&E?
Thankfully no, that's not the case!

luxxlisbon · 14/10/2022 09:51

It depends on that you mean. Healthcare workers have long done many tasks that are in the ‘nursing’ category, but they are not unqualified. There are more staff running hospitals and caring for patients than just doctors and nurses.

fairgame84 · 14/10/2022 09:51

We already have nurse associates in our Trust. Paid as a band 4 but do band 5 work so it saves the Trust money.

ImissyouBR1 · 14/10/2022 09:51

silverclock222 · 14/10/2022 09:50

Generally found the cleaners and porters are more helpful and the 'qualified' ones are too busy moaning at each other.

While I don't want to slag off the NHS but I was in hospital a few days ago and there were 3 nurses crowded around a desk, talking loudly about how their colleague left on long term sick and now can't get a job. They were laughing.

It wasn't nice to hear 😕 😔

SparklyShoesandTutus · 14/10/2022 09:52

The reality is there are no nurses. Not enough training and those that are qualified are leaving in numbers never seen before.
There are many tasks that can be done by trained individuals, not necessarily qualified. There are training and development programmes that mean people can start as unqualified staff but train and progress to earn qualifications and these are often really great.
The work still has to be done and when you have only 1 or 2 people that are qualified you have to reduce their workload so they can do the tasks that only qualified people can do and get other people to do the other tasks

Topgub · 14/10/2022 09:52

@funtycucker

Some hca will do those roles.

They would be a band 3/4 though.

It's mostly a specialised role called clinical support worker rather than hca

Original poster
Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:52

To clarify, using students 6 months into their course to take their own patients on an ITU unit. My friends daughter is in this predicament, unfair on them, nurses and patients.

OP posts:
Topgub · 14/10/2022 09:55

@Jammydodgerr

Student nurses aren't members of staff.

I doubt any uni would agree to students no longer having supernumerary status.

However they have always been used to bolster numbers.

Its not a new thing

BalmyBalmes · 14/10/2022 09:58

"Nursing" encompasses a huge variety of tasks and skills. What nursing tasks will they be performing?

fairgame84 · 14/10/2022 09:59

Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:52

To clarify, using students 6 months into their course to take their own patients on an ITU unit. My friends daughter is in this predicament, unfair on them, nurses and patients.

1st year nursing students?
The ones we get can't even use a thermometer, the patients would never survive!

BalmyBalmes · 14/10/2022 09:59

Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:52

To clarify, using students 6 months into their course to take their own patients on an ITU unit. My friends daughter is in this predicament, unfair on them, nurses and patients.

What is the student's university saying about this?

ThisShitsBananas · 14/10/2022 10:01

RebeccaRose92 · 14/10/2022 09:40

I don’t feel comfortable with qualified nurses let alone unqualified

Why?

flowertoday · 14/10/2022 10:01

SparklyShoesandTutus · 14/10/2022 09:52

The reality is there are no nurses. Not enough training and those that are qualified are leaving in numbers never seen before.
There are many tasks that can be done by trained individuals, not necessarily qualified. There are training and development programmes that mean people can start as unqualified staff but train and progress to earn qualifications and these are often really great.
The work still has to be done and when you have only 1 or 2 people that are qualified you have to reduce their workload so they can do the tasks that only qualified people can do and get other people to do the other tasks

I totally agree with this. I think a pragmatic approach is needed. I know many fantastic band 3 / band 4 health care practitioners.

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