Unqualified NHS staff

Although some band 4's in my role are better and more knowledgeable than the 6's.

I'm not one of them, heh.

This is in part why I left the NHS. More and more responsibility with no recognition or extra training. It felt very unsafe at points and when the shit hit the fan you could never get hold of senior staff. They were too burned out themselves. This was in community projects by the way so no other staff nearby.

With extra training, support and some recognition yes. Just lobbing them in at the deep end, no.

^^ Jesus I’ve just realised I’m still quite bitter about it.

The NHS just needs more band 2,3,4,5 and 6’s full stop. There’s never enough staff. I left several years ago now but I know it’s got worse :(

theres not a chance that universities (and in Scotland, NHS Education) would approve nursing students losing supernumerary status. Also, given we can’t get about 1/2 of the first years to pass their numeracy/drug calculations, I wouldn’t trust them to practice alone. Do you want to be on the receiving end of the treatment of an under-confident 17 year old?

In every trust I’ve worked in nursing associates are band 4. Becuase that’s what they are not yet a nurse they can top up and become a nurse if they like, they can do a lot of what a nurse does just not usually all of it. The last year of a degree to be a nurse is pretty important.

that being said band 4 whether you’re an AP or NA on a ward are very useful as are HCAs wards wouldn’t run without them all together.
this post is about untrained doing trained jobs and as a NA you are a trained individual as you are on the NMC register.

as far as I understand your level of qualification is essentially a foundation degree (completed the first 2 years of a degree essentially) and a top up would then be a degree allowing you to register as a nurse rather than a NA.

Do you mean like the auxiliary nurses we used to have? They were excellent. I think someone from school went straight into that but obvs he had training.

Im not a nurse anymore but my understanding is that a nursing associate is similr to what an enrolled nurse was ,enrolled nurses were being phased out when i sarted my nurse training in the early 90,s ,they had two years training and could do many nursing tasks ,medication ,injections ,care plans etc ,but they didnt have overall responsiblity unl8ke the registered nurses .

There are many, many unqualified staff in NHS. Also many roles filled by staff with a lower level qualification than those they are covering. A creeping reduction in qualifications for certain tasks - is arguably increased specialising on one very small aspect of a role. Nurse endoscopists, for example. Endoscopy used to be exclusively a doctors role but many are now carried out by nurses.
Nurse practitioners can now prescribe when previously it was a doctors only role in primary care. Ambulance support assistants rather than paramedics on emergency ambulances.

Generally it’s fine but not without some risks. More complex or unusual conditions may not be understood or managed as well without the underpinning theory. Some people will have a lesser service - people with a fractured leg may not get pain relief from the ambulance crews if there is no paramedic. A rare fibrotic lung condition may be dismissed as asthma and progress.

The advantages are more staff providing some access (usually reasonable) to services and treating more people. More enthused and motivated staff retained in jobs they prefer. The big benefit is cheaper healthcare, albeit with less qualified or unqualified staff.

My band 4 is a very, very niche role within the NHS. I'd say what it is but it would he very putting! The same job in other trusts is band 5. I genuinely don't know why!