AIBU?
Unqualified NHS staff
Jammydodgerr · 14/10/2022 09:39
How would you feel about the NHS using unqualified members of staff in a nursing role?
This is being floated at our local hospital, North West region, and it makes me feel really uncomfortable.
What are your opinions?
Hudsonriver · 14/10/2022 11:55
endofthelinefinally · 14/10/2022 11:45
When I was having daily IV infusions I attended a day unit each day for a week. . First thing in the morning the IV technician would go round siting everybody's cannula. That person wasn't a nurse, but expert at what they did. The nurses dealt with checking the drugs etc. I think there are many practical tasks that can be done by people who are not nurses. The challenge is with who decides which tasks and whether they have the knowledge to make those decisions.
At the moment I think it is too muddled and there are situations where unqualified staff being asked to do things they are not qualified to do.
The most unsafe person is the one who doesn't know what they don't know, gives advice they are not informed enough to give, doesn't report things that they don't realise are important. There is a lot of that in the NHS atm because of staff shortages.
I agree.
The general public think there are nurses, doctors and then everyone else is " unqualified"
Hcas have to pass maths and english tests, then undergo training, usually a 2week programme, supernum shifts and then complete their Care Certificates.
There are many qualified roles within the NHS, Allied Health Professionals who are highly qualified but not Doctors or Nurses.
You never see them on Holby though so people think they dont exist 🙄
Critical care has patient dependency in levels so an RN without a Critical Care qualification could take a level 2 High dependency patient once they have undergone a supnum period.
A first year student ?
Aye 
Lacey247 · 14/10/2022 11:56
vivainsomnia · 14/10/2022 09:50
In most trusts don't HCA's already do bloods, inserting cannulas, ECG's etc, particularly in A&E?
Thankfully no, that's not the case!
I worked previously as a band 2 HCA and did all these. It’s quite normal and within the job role
ihatesteve · 14/10/2022 11:58
Nursing needs to be regarded more widely as the professional job it is with a salary commersurate with the responsibility. It is a difficult pressurised role which is also physically demanding.
I have no problem with nursing assistants taking stats etc and reporting back in a formulaic way. Actual nurses need some of the pressure taken away and in hospitals more assistants are required (particularly to help with personal care).
x2boys · 14/10/2022 11:58
Realityloom · 14/10/2022 11:37
Do you mean they don't hold a nursing degree? Because they may have a degree and other qualifications.....
Also to be a HCA there is training involved and most apprenticeships for this role is at A level studying its quite intense with all the assignments that have to be done alongside working full time on the wards. You also need a maths qual and English too... tests are involved it's a lengthy process tbh
Reallybadidea · 14/10/2022 09:42
I'd need more information. HCAs are unqualified and already do lots of nursing care.
There was no training for the HCA ,s i worked with other than mandatory this was only 7or 8 years ago it was a role anybody could do.
DismantledKing · 14/10/2022 12:02
TabithaTittlemouse · 14/10/2022 11:54
@Xenoobitch I’m sorry that you have had a bad experience. Please don’t judge us all by the actions of a few though.
I wouldn’t worry. It’s a troll that’s had all its multiple posts from its multiple usernames removed this morning.
MintJulia · 14/10/2022 12:02
MarshaMelrose · 14/10/2022 09:47
"Nursing role". What does that mean in practice? Handing out bedpans, fillng up water jugs, helping people to toilets and showering? Or performing medical procedures?
It's,difficult to comment unless the expected role is more defined.
This.
Realityloom · 14/10/2022 12:02
@x2boys did you actual check or did you assume that HCA don't need qualifications? I do that role and I have been doing it 10 years plus. I had to have a NVQ 2 and I had to have maths and English this was all then years ago.
Today the apprenticeship is around 15months training I'm surprised you are unaware of this.
x2boys · 14/10/2022 12:05
Shortkiwi · 14/10/2022 11:22
As a student nurse in the 80s (in hospitals) we were allocated patients every shift, basically we were a huge part of the nursing workforce. When I look back, it was far too much responsibility too soon, we were thrown in at the deep end. However, we were very experienced and competent by the end of training. Since students became supernumerary it was frustrating for them and us in terms of what they could do. I work in the community and often students are allocated with little to do apart from shadowing. This can be a 6-8 week placement. When I’ve asked why they can’t be allocated to hospitals I’ve been told there aren’t enough mentors and there is now more emphasis on primary care. The introduction of the digital age, whilst necessary, means that there is far too much computer admin for nurses. I’ve also witnessed nurses sitting at the nurses station whilst my Dad was in desperate need of attention. It’s all very frustrating. I actually dread getting ill and needing hospital care.
I did project 2000 in the early 90,s this was the start of the supernumerary thing
But we did haveRostered practice for the last 8 months of our training so ,I had a four month placement with the Community Psychiatric Nurses ,and I had my own small caseload
And I also had a four month placement on an acute Psychiatric ward and was a fully involved member of the team with my own patient etc.
Realityloom · 14/10/2022 12:06
Lacey247 · 14/10/2022 11:56
I worked previously as a band 2 HCA and did all these. It’s quite normal and within the job role
vivainsomnia · 14/10/2022 09:50
In most trusts don't HCA's already do bloods, inserting cannulas, ECG's etc, particularly in A&E?
Thankfully no, that's not the case!
Agree and Band 3 admit patients too. I am interested in which part the poster is saying no to??? North here too.
x2boys · 14/10/2022 12:11
Realityloom · 14/10/2022 12:02
@x2boys did you actual check or did you assume that HCA don't need qualifications? I do that role and I have been doing it 10 years plus. I had to have a NVQ 2 and I had to have maths and English this was all then years ago.
Today the apprenticeship is around 15months training I'm surprised you are unaware of this.
I have actually interviewed them so yes ,they had to sit a maths and English test if they didn't have a GcSE or equivalent,
I'm aware things have changed which is a good thing ,but I can assure you that in the I worked in many HCA,s only got mandatory training ,as I said it was 7 / 8 years ago .
Gemmanorthdevon · 14/10/2022 12:14
Burnt0utMum · 14/10/2022 09:47
This.
RebeccaRose92 · 14/10/2022 09:40
I don’t feel comfortable with qualified nurses let alone unqualified
This also!
Shortkiwi · 14/10/2022 12:14
Interesting to hear about the nurse associate role. In the old days (!) RGNs (previously SRNs) and SENs both were responsible and accountable for their allocated patients. The difference was that SENs didn’t take charge of the ward. Worked fine. I remember SENs almost being forced to convert to RGNs, often they didn’t want to. This was all part of the drive to elevate the academic status of nurses.
In all my years in the NHS I’ve found some things change for no good reason and then they get reintroduced years later under a different name/guise!
containsnuts · 14/10/2022 12:15
DismantledKing · 14/10/2022 10:21
State Enrolled Nurse and State Registered Nurse
helpfulperson · 14/10/2022 10:20
Many years ago there were two types of nurse but I can't remember the names. Each had their own specific role. Maybe we need to go back to that. One required academic study, the other less so.
I remember there were nurses, and then auxiliary nurses that were identifiable via a different uniform and did the caring tasks that didn't involve meds, I think. What is the equivalent now?
Orangesandlemons82 · 14/10/2022 12:15
Going back to the thread I don't think this can be true. The first year of the nursing degree is consolidated basic nursing skills and developing confidence. It would be very unusual to have a placement in an ITU. Secondly a newly qualified nurse wouldn't be expected to know how the ventilators and specialist equipment worked, you would need further training. There is no way a first year student would be left in some charge of an ITU patient. Do they not like their course and are looking for a way to quit?
LionsandLambs · 14/10/2022 12:15
HCA / nursing assistants can be very qualified and skilled. The issues are they aren’t registered professionals and don’t have the ability to interpret results or make independent decisions. They are very valued in a supporting role, the danger is when places dilute the registered workforce with them. It’s never to improve care, it’s always in a desperate attempt to increase boots on the ground at cheap cost.
Nursemumma92 · 14/10/2022 12:17
I think this student may have misunderstood what was being asked of them or be over inflating their role somewhat... where I work first year student nurses can't even go on placement on ITU. And even nurses who are qualified and have been for years are supervised if they've never worked on ITU before until they are signed off as competent with all the different equipment and care tasks etc. No nurse in charge of an ITU would risk their registration like that...
AuntSalli · 14/10/2022 12:32
I have firsthand experience of this my mother was a healthcare assistant in accident and emergency and woman came in acting drunk and silly so my mother in her infinite wisdom, level 2 qualification decided to put her in a side room and then forgot about her. The woman had a brain tumour and was dead by the time the doctor got in there, not sure how to push that one under the carpet but you never heard about it in the news did you ?
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