To wonder why some people don't work full-time?

[donniedarko89]

I was part-time myself while DD was very young as I wanted to spend time with her. I know many mums however who have stayed part time even after the kids go to school. They only work 2 or 3 days a week. The thing is, they're not loaded, on the contrary they keep complaining that finances are tight and they can't afford stuff - then why not increase your work days (they could all easily do it)? Some of them even have a cleaner. No hobbies on the side either. It genuinely puzzles me!

If you lived in Sweden you probably would feel differently due to societal norms

🤷‍♀️

No, I’m suggesting that the working mums say it to make the women who have chosen staying home with children, or working part time in a low-paid job, over a career, feel better about themselves.

Because the women with proper careers who also have children don’t need to comfort themselves. They can see that the friends who rejected a career, or weren’t capable of having a successful professional career, feel a bit inferior. They are being kind, in other words.

As if a woman with a professional career would behave in the way you describe! But we all tell social white lies to a degree, don’t we? To make other people feel better. I have a degree in physics, for example. I don’t broadcast it but people ask. If anyone says, oh, you must be really clever, I say no, nothing special, there are many kinds of cleverness. Because I don’t want the less-educated person to feel bad, see? That’s what your friends are doing, to be kind to you.

So do you think a societal " model" where two parents work full time and children are in day care 8-6 or after school clubs / with nannies is a better "model" Topgub?

Who is that a better "model" for? Who wins?

Sounds utterly grim to me.

@ambermorning

No.

Although I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I think both parents working flexibly to cover childcare is the ideal model.

"That’s what your friends are doing, to be kind to you."

Of yes, it must be that. I guess they ended up on Prozac to be kind too.

Well. Not really - why does he earn 6 times what you do? See above^ (not expecting you to answer it’s a societal not an individual question). Why did you choose a career that pays less? Why didn’t he? Why is this a repeated pattern when you ask that question?

But WHY does he?

Some women fail to realise that being at home to "raise" them, and "be there for them" does not foster independence in our children. There are values they learn by example.
It's a contradiction when what we say and do are different things.

If that were true, women would still be in the position they were in Victorian times - no women would have ever fought for the right to go to university, or the vote or enter the professions, whatever; because they had no role models? Look at Marie Curie - what possessed her to become a scientist? Read Vera Brittain's book "Testament of Youth" on her struggles to go to university. Where did she get those ideas from? The Bronte sisters, Jane Austen, George Eliot to name but a few women authors - what made them aspire to being published writers; because afaik, their mothers weren't?

I was the first woman in my family on either side to go to university. My mother was a SAHM. It never entered my head, that I should follow in her footsteps? I went to a grammar school, where the attitude was that all girls should go to the traditional universities (no polytechnics or bottom of the league table universities for us); or the alternative was dismissed sarcastically as "Do you want to work in Woolworth's?"

Young children may have only their parents as their role models, because they and grandparents may be the only people, they know really well; but as children get older, role models can be friends, teachers, celebrities, you name it!

@Quisquam

If you listen to the sahm of mn, women are biologically programmed to want to look after their children and do nothing else.

Its a miracle any woman works

Modelling is far more effective as a teaching tool

That's pretty well established

Topgub - I think I'm the future, people will work more flexibly snd it will be better all round.

But I can also see that there are some jobs where this is not possible and possibly never will be. Not everybody even works fixed hours, for instance. If you are starting up a business, you can't have an "I work x hours" mentality. You have to react the opportunities as an when they come, to push things through. In the future, if it pays off, then you can sit back hopefully - maybe even retire early. But to get to that point takes effort in the short / medium term.

Because the women with proper careers who also have children don’t need to comfort themselves. They can see that the friends who rejected a career, or weren’t capable of having a successful professional career, feel a bit inferior.

Wow! You have no idea about why many highly successful women CHOOSE to give up their careers to look after their families and homes..!!!

But sure, assume that they feel 'inferior' if you want.

@ambermorning

Don't set up a business when you have young kids then

🤷‍♀️

So because one or two women you know, or knew, ‘ended up on Prozac’, all women with full time careers and children are on anti-depressants? Right you are then!

What do you even class as a 'proper' career? 🤣

This thread has become beyond ridiculous.

You know what I'm saying Topgub. Not everyone works FOR someone else on a fixed contract or a structured pay scale.

@ambermorning

That's what men tell themselves, sure.

Funny how women seem to manage it so much better. Scandi countries seem to manage it better

Maybe more men could manage it if they weren't the only one earning the money?

If you listen to the sahm of mn, women are biologically programmed to want to look after their children and do nothing else.

Women should have all the opportunities available to them - they should get a great education/go to University, have a great career, set up their own companies etc. They should ideally be financially independent.

But they should also have the opportunity to focus on being a mother, of taking time out of their career to nurture their children, to look after their families and homes IF THEY WANT TO (and can afford to)!

My oh is self employed.

He managed it.

Him being self employed actually made being flexible far easier

Because working full time is rubbish! Lots of people want days to sort the house out, rest up, deal with their mental health (especially atm!) Maybe there aren’t full time jobs available either.

There is no such thing as a proper career - there are people earning millions who are miserable and people on minimum wage who are happy. My question I’m pondering is that it remains hugely predominantly women who say they are the lower earners in relationships. Why? If we reach a stage where salaries are more equal, more men as well as women choose to work part time if they want, we just have a more equitable society, surely everyone wins?

Womens paid work being regarded as bringing in the pin money is nonsense in this day and age is it not. And men being viewed as too economically important to spend more time with their children is equally nonsense. Everyone’s choices are being constrained here even if you can’t actively see what’s happening.

Well, that’s rather the point, isn’t it? If those careers had been as great as you suggest, why would you choose to give it up?

More likely, the women who chose to stay at home comfort themselves with their own version of “I coulda been a contender “. Which is what we are seeing on this thread. Eg, You career bitches just don’t love your children enough! That’s why your kids are meanies and bullies (unless they belong to a single mother, naturally).

It’s a huge disappointment to tiger mothers when their perceived sacrifice (‘CHOOSING to give up their careers to look after their families and homes’) doesn’t deliver a tangible benefit. That must be upsetting, particularly when your friends have successful careers, which explains the outpouring of bile and the fact that the most vehement posters didn’t bother to read the OP properly before going on the rampage. Is that what you’d call being triggered?

@Lilacsunflowers

What about men?

Should they also have the opportunity to focus on being a father, of taking time out of their career to nurture their children, to look after their families and homes?

If we keep insisting that only women want that we do a disservice to everyone.

Except the very few who want to be sahms

"What about men?"

Well what about them? If they want to work PT or be a SAHD, then make that happen. Marry a woman who wants that type of partner. No brainier.