This is going to offend some people, but...

[chandaliere]

To think that people who have left their country of birth and possibly family behind, to make a better life for themselves in a different place and have made a success of it, deserve a lot of respect ?

I think it takes a lot to make something of yourself elsewhere and can't help but have masses of respect for people who've managed to do that.

😆 are you trying to justify something to yourself OP? What’s happened?

🙄 My superior quality human just made himself a cup of tea with offering me one.@

Surely it depends. I wouldn't respect them if they had abandoned their sick mother to a lonely death, or used stolen money to set themselves up in a new country, or only moved because they thought it would be easier to get away with paedophilia in the new country, or if they had cheated their way to success in the new country or if they only moved because they think that the only point of life is the acquisition of luxury / designer goods.

But if they fled through a want or need for a better life and improved their and their families lot through hard work, intelligence etc then I would be more impressed.

@PurpleIsTheNewPink

Not everyone comes here to "improve" their lives. People immigrate for all kinds of reasons. I came to the UK from India twenty years ago because I wanted to experience something new. I liked it, got a job, got married and so I stayed. Not because India is a shithole and the UK is paradise.

We are considering emigrating now because healthcare is so bad in this country and I worry about my family's health needs. You can't get timely treatment neither for love and money and even private care is sub standard. I could of course be courageous and try to improve the system but I don't think I could effect a change big enough to help my family or anyone else.

I just think they're better than the ones that live and die where they were born and never properly venture out.

Well now you've completely changed the tone of your thread and sound like a bit of a dick.

F**king hell. You need to stop now @chandaliere You're embarrassing yourself.

I thought this was indeed one of these silly posts.

I envy my old Lodger for buying a house in France {His Mum and brother live there too...The property prices are a fraction of ours, and it's a far better life.
They squeaked in just before the disastrous Brexit vote.

Well done them.

Depends who you are talking about, if you are speaking about 100's and 1000's of fit an able men. Who leave their country with women and children for economic reasons than staying and help improve the conditions for those they leave behind. Then he'll no.

I agree. I have a family member who complains about immigrants taking all the jobs. I think, yes because if you are willing to leave everything you know to start a new life you are probably proactive, positive, smart and hardworking.

Child of immigrants now an expat from the UK. i would say it depends where you are coming from and your resources and when really. Someone immigrating to the UK 40 years a go from a tiny village with no money is going to be different from a middle class person clutching an MBA coming for a nice desk job tbh from the same country

When my parents immigrated flying was too expensive so many people didn’t see family for years, letters were sent via airmail most jobs available to immigrants were limited. These days people are facetiming each other all the time and visiting each other on a much more regular basis. I think global inequality was much starker a few decades ago. It’s not great now but it’s substantially better so people moving from one place to another are not necessarily experiencing the level technological etc difference that they may once have. So on-line banking using apps is common in most countries in africa and was more widespread than in the UK because access to a laptop was harder to obtain.

I appreciate the sentiment, it is daunting moving country but tbh it wasn’t that bad. I think its a very different experience if you are fleeing with what you can carry. That must be bloody terrifying.

OK, I'll bite.

Why don't YOU go and live in France then?

I am sure life will be soooooooooooo much better for you there. 🙄

Awaits the paper thin and flimsy 'reasons' why you cannot go.

Yup. I'm probably going to die in London on account of having stayed to care for my immigrant parents in their old age, whom OP thinks are marvellous. What does "properly venture out" mean OP?

Thats pretty offensive. Nothing like a sweeping generalisation on all sorts of people who move from many circumstances and for different reasons. Some might be brave. Others are not. It doesn't make them better or worse than those who don't move.

Nice new name change to go with 'first' post though

yes because if you are willing to leave everything you know to start a new life you are probably proactive, positive, smart and hardworking....Not to mention physically healthy with robust mental health to consider such a big change alone and unencumbered by caring responsibilities - these are the ace cards in the pack.

Unless you're posting from somewhere like Syria or Palestine or Ukraine, I doubt you know the meaning of making your war torn country better than running to a 'better country'.

You are in your country due to an accident of birth, not because you are worth more.

You're talking out of your behind here re that.

My great grandmother (German) moved here before the start of WW2 to live with her son (dual national German/English) because her husband was in a hard labour camp in Germany and she'd already lost her home twice over due to the Nazis in Germany and Luxembourg. She didn't want to come to England but didn't have or thought she had a superior quality of life. In fact in a local shop they refused to serve her as she had a German accent. Her outlook on life was mostly survival but also thinking about her 'boys' (German army) fighting English army in England and having to see that. She also knew that she wouldn't return home, and she would have liked to have done that.

I own part of a house there, but my loved ones are here, but it's a definite consideration.

I missed your little gem in your second paragraph.

I knew of or knew lots of people who'd never ventured out of where they lived, for many, many reasons. You don't have to travel to gain a broader outlook on life.

Well, or just desperate. A lot of my family emigrated to the US after the Famine. I don’t think they would have been particularly robust or proactive, and they knew the journey and initial conditions would be hideous, but they had no other options. And they’d seen a lot of death.

Twice? Maybe you’re just a bit shit at communicating?

it’s not offensive to admire something. It is offensive to place yourself as an expert judge as other peoples worthiness.

what you actually are is narrow minded and failing to recognise achievements of people who don’t do something you personally admire. Lots of very successful business people, health care professionals, charity workers, scientists, teachers etc. achieve amazing things without migrating but not necessarily having an ‘easy’ time.

You’ve made the mistake of thinking that things that you personally find admirable means anyone outside that category is ‘less’. It’s not your opinion that’s offensive it’s your small mindedness.

Well yes. My point was only alongside the other which laid out the -presumed- qualities of migrants which highlighted veneered personality qualities.

But yes, a completely different migrant is one who is moves on the sheer will to survive alone. The bulk of my family shifted to England in the same famine migration, chirpy they were not.

I agree op.

I left UK, best thing I ever did. Hated the place.

Dotjones · Today 08:50

I don't find it offensive but I think it's wrong. It takes greater courage to remain where you're born and make the place better rather than take the easy option of running away to a better country

Yeah, well I bet you don't think that about the Irish potato famine, when people emigrated to the US.