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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if school mum cliques upset you, or how do you deal with cliques?

258 replies

facefit · 10/10/2022 19:35

I'm new to school, my child is in reception. I've noticed that there are cliques forming.

How do you deal with it? Or just completely ignore?

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 12/10/2022 17:50

@Redpanda56

Trolling is a problem on here but I take exception to the idea that disagreeing with an OP = gaslighting.

There are plenty of valid and coherent arguments on both sides of this equation.

Theres a responsibility to be civil and not to be offensive on here but there’s no obligation to agree with an OP purely because it’s a sensitive subject.

Mardyface · 12/10/2022 17:56

Telling people they are not experiencing what they report experiencing is gaslighting. Plenty of it on this thread.

StupidSmallFruit · 12/10/2022 18:03

People are responding to the OP - not to randoms on the thread.

The OP has JUST moved to the area, and the new school year has just started.

She can’t know that what she’s seeing are ‘cliques’, or just friendship groups.

And jumping to the conclusion they’re cliques isn’t going to help anyone, least of all the OP.

Thepeopleversuswork · 12/10/2022 18:05

Mardyface · 12/10/2022 17:56

Telling people they are not experiencing what they report experiencing is gaslighting. Plenty of it on this thread.

But the problem with this is that it assumes that there is a malicious intent to all this. These posts reference “cliquey” behaviour as if this was an objective and measurable standard.

When you unpick what has actually happened in nine cases out of ten it’s someone choosing to sit next to their friend or failing to wave at the school gates etc.

“Gaslighting” refers to a deliberate act of misleading and failing to accept responsibility in intimate relationships or ones where there is a power imbalance.

It’s possible that these posters interpret a failure to wave or smile as unkind but it’s pretty self-absorbed to suggest that in each case it’s intentional emotional sabotage by minor acquaintances who don’t have anything to gain.

CallTheMobWife · 12/10/2022 18:07

Mardyface · 12/10/2022 17:56

Telling people they are not experiencing what they report experiencing is gaslighting. Plenty of it on this thread.

No, it isn't.

Telling people that their perspective is skewed is not gaslighting. It's reality. Subjective experience is not objective truth. You can be absolutely sure you are experiencing something and it can be not true.

As an example, you can be absolutely sure that you see a clique of bitches evry day that exclude you and ignore you. In reality that may be a group of perfectly normal friends that haven't noticed you and don't know you exist, and who are not excluding your or ignoring you.

warofthemonstertrucks · 12/10/2022 18:16

Chat cheerily to everyone.

CallTheMobWife · 12/10/2022 18:23

warofthemonstertrucks · 12/10/2022 18:16

Chat cheerily to everyone.

Shan't.

PrettyPetal7 · 12/10/2022 18:51

CallTheMobWife · 12/10/2022 17:18

Beause being kind is a load of bollocks! #bekind, its just another way of saying be a doormat,make yourself small, don't stand out, don't assert yourself, put yourself out for anyone and everyone to the detriment of yourself.

#bekind is the mantra of the CF who is not kind but likes to take advantage of other peoples kindness. Its the mantra of the nasty person calling everyone else names like Queen Bitch and the like, while pretending to be the wronged party.

Oh dear.

Why can't it just be plain old kindness? I haven't seen anyone use the hashtag on this thread. This isn't a trend...it's an age old value which is clearly dying.

StupidSmallFruit · 12/10/2022 18:55

But many of the people bemoaning cliques on this thread have been anything but ‘kind’. The derogatory language is a sight to behold.

Mardyface · 12/10/2022 19:35

@CallTheMobWife right, but people desperately trying to make clearly unreasonable behaviour - like that of the woman who told someone to move, for example - into misunderstanding/misinterpretation are telling people their own experiences are wrong. In my own case I have plenty of friends, I like to see the best in people & I don't begrudge friendships that others have without me . I think the advice about staying positive and friendly is spot on. But I am also able to recognise rudeness from people doing it because they want to cement a group and their place in it and your place out of it. That is my experience. It didn't bother me much at the time because I was in a strong situation and not vulnerable - I just thought 'wow that was rude' - but telling me I did not experience that rudeness is indeed gaslighting. When you do that to someone who IS bothered and IS feeling vulnerable it can make them feel like the fault is all theirs when it isn't (necessarily). Otherwise known as gaslighting.

5128gap · 12/10/2022 20:54

I think most adult women are able to read non verbal communication well enough to assess if they are being deliberately sidelined as oppose to inadvertently overlooked. Yes, sometimes we can be over sensitive and misinterpret things, but time and again women speak about being excluded by cliques. Are we to suppose that all of them have misconstrued innocent behaviour? Because that seems about as likely to me as suggesting that all women who feel uncomfortable around certain male behaviour are imagining it, and the men are just being friendly. We read signals, we pick up on expressions. If someone says they are being excluded, there's every chance they're right.

Anon778833 · 12/10/2022 21:51

Telling people that their perspective is skewed is not gaslighting. It's reality.

How do you know that someone’s perspective is ‘skewed’ when you weren’t even there??

StupidSmallFruit · 12/10/2022 22:18

I still don’t understand how insisting the OP is in the thrall of established, nefarious cliques - when none of us knows that, and it is such early days for her at this school - is in any way helpful?

But then again - given then OP has come back to say ‘here’ once and then hasn’t engaged again at all - I’m not really sure why any of us are bothering…. Confused

Kite22 · 12/10/2022 22:37

Thepeopleversuswork · 12/10/2022 08:52

@Mardyface

I think the thing is that some of us know from previous experience that most of this is down to your mindset and the way you approach this. And that approaching it positively is absolutely crucial.

I'm sure there are isolated cases where some school mums gang up against others and if that's genuinely what's happening to OP I'm sure that's very upsetting. But in the vast vast majority of cases what's described as "clique" behaviour is actually just people having friendships which don't include others.

And the reasons this whole narrative bothers some of us are:

a) It reinforces a sense of paranoia and social isolation which is not remotely helpful to the OP (or people in general). What the OP has described is very obviously pretty bog standard social anxiety because her children have just started school. This is daunting but pretty normal and pathologising the way other people react as being "cliquey" makes things far worse for her. The way she acts on this at this point is critical. If she shrugs this off and carries on with as positive a mindset as she can the chances are she will be fine and develop some good relationships. If she retreats into paranoia about "cliques" she is going to make life immeasurably harder for herself and her children.

b) If you're a grown up you have to make peace with the fact that some people won't particularly like you. They don't have to have reasons for this. It just is what it is. If you go around expecting everyone to like you you will always be disappointed when some don't. That's a bad and damaging mindset to hand on to children.

c) There's a whiff of misogyny in the "cliques" narrative. It takes as a starting point the idea that women should all play nice just because they are women. If women form their own independent friendships it is seen as being antisocial. Some of us powerfully want to right to choose our own friends rather than having them foisted on us simply because society dictates that all women should be kind to each other. That's of course not an excuse for unkindness or bullying. But I don't want to go through life having to apologise for choosing like-minded friends or feeling that people will call me "cliquey" because I do so. My friendships are not your problem.

d) Children will ultimately make friends with whoever they like. There's a limit to what adults can do to engineer this.

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the trouble to write this out.

Also this
I think a lot of feelings come in for some people, and not good feelings. They want to make friends, they feel lonely. They want to feel included, they feel envious of those who can make friendships and it leads to a fuck ton of drama in the outsiders head, where as the people being watched are just cracking on and have no idea a small minority are watching on
yes isolated incidents occur but what most folks see as just a group of folks being friendly some folks see it as something to attack

BagpussBagpussOldFatFurryCatpuss · 13/10/2022 04:57

@Mardyface
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thank you for posting that!

peaceandove · 13/10/2022 11:33

I think the above post is very astute. During my first few weeks doing the school run it never occurred to me to look out for cliques etc. I just didn't give it much thought. I made several friends easily (we're still close 15 years later) and, yes, we tended to stand chatting together most days.

I honestly don't believe any us thought others in the playground were observing us unfavourably and deciding we were a clique? We were just friends chatting and busy getting on with life - there was never any malicious intent. Life really is far too short to indulge in that sort of shit.

VBrzonk · 18/05/2023 10:09

MakeMineALarge1 · 10/10/2022 20:03

I'm sorry you're being bloody ridiculous
Cliques.
Really?
Or just a few mum's having a chat before going about their daily routine.
What exactly is the issue, you take your child to school, drop them off, wave to, smile at other mums, go home.

Whilst I try not to buy in to the whole clique thing, this comment is just horrible. This person is obviously struggling and there is no need to be so rude. Have a bit of compassion please and try to be constructive. Your attitude is just depressing.

StupidSmallFruit · 18/05/2023 10:15

@VBrzonk - thank God for you coming along 7 months after the event to tell that person off.

Coucous · 18/05/2023 10:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Coucous · 18/05/2023 10:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

StephanieSuperpowers · 18/05/2023 10:56

StupidSmallFruit · 12/10/2022 18:55

But many of the people bemoaning cliques on this thread have been anything but ‘kind’. The derogatory language is a sight to behold.

I know. The question of why these people I find awful and hateful aren't seeking me out for friendship is one for the ages.

JudgeJ · 18/05/2023 11:10

Reading yet another thread like this makes me eternally grateful that I never did a school run, maybe walked to the end of the road to put one onto the school bus when they were small.

5128gap · 18/05/2023 11:30

Makes me wish I could fast forward them for a peek at their future, when their children are grown, are doing just fine with the mates they made for themselves, and they can barely remember the names of these people, much less why they mattered.

SerafinasGoose · 18/05/2023 11:58

My kid is Y4.

I'll talk to anyone, or not, and have no problems either way. The parents are friendly enough, and if one ignored me I'd dismiss it as their not having seen me, preoccupied with something else, etc. It's highly unlikely to be about me personally and even if it is, I can't pretend to care overmuch.

Doubtless some cliques do exist: if they do, I'm not aware of them. If other parents are friends and meet up outside of school drop-off and pick-up, I haven't noticed and am busy as most of us are, so it would be an overinvestment to make time for transitory, school-gate friendships in addition.

That's not to say parents bullying other parents doesn't happen, just because it happens to be outside my experience. But there's a limit to what they can do. Drop-off is easy, you drop and go. Pick-up, if you do that too, is 5-10 mins wait per day.

It should take up precisely that much of your time and attention.

Sorry this is making you feel rotten OP. I know on these threads a dismissive attitude is inevitable, and I've no desire to add to that, but hope this is something you can deal with in proportion. Call a lovely friend who does have time for you and invite them for coffee, and (as far as possible) only make room for what is positive in your life. Works for me 🌹

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 18/05/2023 12:02

I have to accept that I’m not going to be everyone’s best friend as I’m hardly ever at the school due to work.

I sometimes feel like I’m missing out but it is what it is!