To ask parents of DDs how you'd want this to be handled

[drelo2]

DS has just turned 15, he went over his friends house last night which he's done multiple times before and he's always been well behaved etc.

I had a message off the friends gf’s mum this morning saying the friend was asking her DD for nudes when the gf said no they made a group chat and kept asking and when she said no asking why she wouldn't, basically pestering her, apparently this was mainly the friend though. The friend did face time her and she did show them something but she told her mum it was to shut them up.

I'm furious with DS, I have spoken to him and hes blamed the friend for it and he asked if they could do something else and he said no, I obviously don't know if this is true and I suspect the friend will say the same about DS.

How would you want this to be handled?

Another point is how far these images have gone. If he has distributed them his goose is cooked. Doesn't matter if he's deleted the evidence. Nothing is ever really gone and if images of this girl have been spread then police involvement is inevitable and they will find it.

He needs to appreciate the gravity of what he has done. This is not a petty crime, people do prison time for this.

As a parent of girls I'd have reported your son and his friend to the police for that. I'd expect you as his parent to remove his phone for a significant amount of time and seriously talk to him about the what he's done. It's sickening that boys feel they can do things like this, and even if it was more his friend, why on earth would he not speak up? He needs to know how serious this is.

I assume this happened outside school, so why report to the school?

because that’s the best way to access safeguarding and education?

schools have a lot of experience with this. There will be safer schools officers and a safeguarding lead who can talk to the kids and educate them.

As much as parents think they might be able to handle this sort of thing, an outside influence reinforcing the seriousness and giving them correct information on the legalities will likely make a bigger impact than any threat or punishment from a parent.

that and we’ve already seen how it can be minimised.

Just to add that sharing 'nudes' is illegal under the age of 18. I haven't read the full thread, so apologies if someone else has already said this.

watch this and get him to watch it too...it's a safeguarding clip.

vimeo.com/752970148/b7e13b483c

@reigatecastle school will want to know so the safeguarding team can help both the female victim and the males involved.
We had a case at school a couple of years ago with a boy caught on SM uploading videos of a girl. We were very much involved with the parents of both parties (and the police)

This.

He’s hardly Jimmy Saville is he?! I mean of course you need to explain to him why this is wrong but it’s hardly the distribution of child pornography ffs.

Are you insane OP? Why on Earth would you throw yourself and your son to the wolves like this?

*She posted an indecent image, that would be investigated. As I said it might well be NFA but not a pleasant experience.

You have every right to support you DD. I worked for a large regional police force, my DH was a senior police officer and we wouldn't*

I work in a school and the police have large safeguarding departments that we deal directly with. I’ve never seen them put a child through an unpleasant experience with this sort of event.

words of education, usually. But supportive.

If the police investigate this sort of thing in a way that makes their own officers and staff unwilling to report, let alone the victims, that’s an issue with that Police Force, and I’d be making a formal complaint.

I have multiple DS and one DD who is the youngest. I know exactly how you feel because one of my idiot sons was involved in something similar about 20 years ago and it was a web cam situation.

Firstly, this isn't a reflection on how you've brought DS up. Nor is it a reflection on the other parents involved.

I have always felt that kids nowadays grow up so fast. There's no innocence left anymore and that, coupled with this rush to want to do and experience everything leads kids to make the wrong decisions at times. There's so much pressure on boys to be a certain way and to act in ways that I'm sure that most mothers would be horrified by, if they were party to it! And that's part of growing up and learning from mistakes and also, learning what is and isn't acceptable.

And I'm sure that you will say that your DS knew this wasn't acceptable because.....but did you ever explicitly explain these things?

Did you actually sit down with him and explain that having girlfriends is fine but that there's a line and he mustn't ever cross that line?

And did you explain explicitly about consent and no meaning no?

And that silence isn't a yes?

And that once NO is out there, then no means no more.

And that if he persists, it makes him the type of boy that girls find creepy.

And that if this situation occurs and he is witness to it, then he needs to do his best, if safe to do so, to protect the girl. And if he can't do it safely, or he himself doesn't feel safe, he's to find an adult or call you or, if he really, really feels unsafe, to call 999.

Because I had told my DS's about consent and if a girl says no then it's a no, etc. But I hadn't been explicit and explained exactly what I was talking about and exactly what the different scenarios were that could have come from what DS had done and I also hadn't spoken about risky behaviour.

And after that, as soon as my other DS hit high school, I had that talk and I also had it with the DS's in high school.

And in the country where I live now, if a child sends another child nudes of any type, it's immediately distributing child pornography. And no, I don't live in the USA!

My DD and youngest DS came to me about 2/3 years ago.

A friend of theirs had allowed her BF to go round to her house, whilst her mother was at work. The BF turned up with maybe 5 or 6 mates and she felt overwhelmed and wasn't sure what to do so she let them in. She was around 14 and they were the same age group/same year at school.

She and the BF went up to her bedroom and whilst up there, the bf persuaded her and they had sex. And she didn't know that her BF's friend was live streaming the whole thing on instagram.

My DD and DS knew pretty much immediately but didn't tell me immediately because they didn't want to get her in trouble and they know I'm a mandatory reporter because of my job. When they told me what had happened, I said that at least it was live so it's gone. Oh no, apparently other people had recorded it as it was streaming! This poor girl's life was ruined by those boys. And the BF and his pathetic turd friends were all arrested for possession and distribution of child pornography and will be on the sex offenders register for the rest of their lives, because that's how it is over here. Unfortunately, it's also what I think of as an incestuous place; everyone knows everyone else and there's no getting away from each other. Forget about the degrees from Kevin Bacon thing, we are like 2 degrees from each other!

But in some ways, I think for the vast majority of kids, knowing how quickly it will spread stops them from making huge mistakes. For others, like the instagram live streamers, they think that no-one will tell their parents and thankfully my 2 youngest children are TMI children and share even when I would rather they didn't!

@drelo2 check your son's phone asap so that he can't remove anything that shows him in a poor light. Also, I remember a news story that came up on our evening news a few years ago about a video that some police force had made in the UK about consent but used tea to illustrate consent. Maybe you could show that to your son so that he can understand consent fully and understand the different situations that arise and how they play out in real life. (And yes, that was on our main evening news, as a serious news item. I guess we're lucky to live in a place where every day is a slow news day).

I agree. What sort of man do you want to be raising?

Teenage boys police each other's behaviour all the time. What to watch, wear, say everything. They police each others values. The value of not coercing and sexually harassing girls SHOULD be something they police. And yet yours didn't feel he could say, "seriously mate" and walk out if the friend behaved this way. Tell someone, tell the girl not to listen, do anything helpful or healthy.

There's something rotten in their friend group and it needs to be dealt with. 1 in 3 men thinks it's OK to carry on having sex without enthusiastic consent (making them wannabe rapists) and all the mums of boys say, "not mine" well a third of you are wrong. This kid's mum is wrong. And OP is getting there.

Well OP you've had lots of advice so what are you going to do?

I hope you'll take him to the police station and stop trying to excuse/minimise his behaviour.

Men who rape and abuse women are more often than not parental failures, and you're responsible for the man you've brought into this world. Women around him don't deserve to be unsafe.

Hand over phone for a month. Check all devices. Grounded for month. Chat about consent, bullying and predatory behaviour. Over with you to apologise to girl and her parents. I would be telling son I was ashamed of his behaviour. Warned if anything similar ever happened again I would be taking him to police station myself.

I teach about this in PSHE to 14/15 year olds. Most of them are shocked when I say that having any images of under age (and the video explanation I show says that's under 18), is a criminal offence and if they share it on they are in a lot of trouble.

Apart from legalities of it, he should be taught about respect for females and not pestering them for photos when they don't want to! And he should be reconsidering who he's friends with if his friend was the one pestering her...consent isn't something you can pester someone in to!

Actually, respect for anyone, not just females!

Take away phone, apology to the girl and take him to the police station for an informal chat with an officer about the consequences things like this can have for everyone involved. We did this to my nephew and it was enough to scare him shitless from ever showing such disrespect again.

That's nice. I used to prepare court files in one role, I always hated the interviews with kids. Do you think a 15 year old girl being questioned about what happened, why she posted the image (because they'd have to ask) and knowing the police officers have seen the photos would be pleasant? Not to mention if it goes to court and she's called.

I'm not sure how you could make that pleasant.

Maybe your idea of pleasant but not mine.

I’d take your ‘D’S’s phone from him and call your local community police officer to either come and speak to him or take him into the station to talk about the consequences of sexual assault, ignoring consent and underage sex.

I'd take him to the police station

So they will just magically know what happened without anyone asking? Yes it often goes like that.

If this was my son (and I have one) i would take his phone away completely, he would have to write an apology and read it out to the girl in question in front of her parents and ask for her forgiveness. He would NOT be going to football or leaving the house until he earned it back. I would personally take him to school and pick him up. That behaviour is an outright no and zero tolerated. He would fully know my disappointment in him. No excuse is good enough, at the end of the day he partook in it.

I mean of course you need to explain to him why this is wrong but it’s hardly the distribution of child pornography ffs.

It literally is.

When I was young it applied to sex crimes generally, as well, but now I think about it, it is more generally used for offences against children.

I'll try and keep up to date!

No they are just better hidden or temporarily removed where you can't see them.

What else are you doing? Talking to him is just the start. Presumably you have removed his phone for now and any other devices from his room and his external access will be restricted to homework purposes only in a family area under supervision?

This should go to the school. If I were the girl's mother I would be "that" parent wanting to discuss this with the safeguarding team. Coercion sufficient to persuade a girl to "show them something" is a practiced effort and it will not be an isolated incident.

Roughly every school day a girl is raped in a British school, there are countless incidents of harrassment and abuse, mostly minimised and dismissed so girls are schooled not to say anything and to comply for a quiet life. Its how rape culture develops.

BTW OP - I have boys as well as girls. I can tell you now, that sometimes the victims of this kind of sexual abuse are boys.

So how would you feel if DS were the victim of this? What would you be doing?

Since he's deleted the chat etc then I'd give his phone to the police, along with the names of all the other boys involved. He would never be allowed to socialise with that group again, or have a smart phone at least for a good few years. And I'd let the school safeguarding team know so they can keep the girls in the school safe from your son and the other predators

So many on here assuming the boys guilt with no evidence. Calling a 15 year old child rapey and a sexual predator, just on someone else's word. That I find very worrying. They're all children and just need guidance.