To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

I’m sorry you cannot blame his behaviour on his age. Thousands of children of that age are in foundations classes around the country and they are not biting children.

Shocking the minimising of this kid’s behaviour! Excuse after excuse for it, with no regard to the affect on other children in the class.

The problem is all 30 children in the class are being failed. My child was referred to camhs due to being forced into a battle ground every day, they would come home crying about what injury or abuse they or their friends had suffered that day. We are years on and they still talk about it and the emotional damage is evident. Hitting and biting in reception is not normal unless it is a one off reactionary rare event. I have every sympathy for any parent on either side of this but keeping the child in the classroom benefits no one at all. Maybe permanent isolation with a 1 2 1 until a long term solution becomes available would be best.

And a school that fails to safeguard all the children involved has failed all of them.

If the school had had prior knowledge of his behaviours I would have assumed some sort of provision would have been in place from day one even if that was temporary and changed further on into the term eg an extra TA redeployed to YR or a 1-to-1 employed on a part time basis etc. What did the school know in advance of him starting? Eg what did you tell them on meeting them in the previous term and what did the handover notes from the nursery contain? In a way it sounds like they had nothing in place because they didn't know. Hopefully contacting all the agencies involved in getting appropriate support/assessments is underway but this won't happen overnight, EPs, support staff etc are not sitting by the phone waiting for work.

Definitely make an appointment to see the HT and explain what the teacher said and if there any truth in it. Ask what they are currently doing for ds at the moment and whether he gets any 1-to-1 support at all during the day.

I think if I was you I would defer him a year, rejoin a nursery and use the year to fight for assessment. Then when he starts school he may be in a better position support-wise. Apart from being older and possibly be able to cope better. Good luck to you and ds.

What help have they offered? Excluding a 4/5 year old is a big decision and hopefully you are getting professional guidance and help. Good luck

Since the nursery didn't start the process what did mum do? If he is that bad how has mum let this go on for 3 years?

It's not the school's responsibility to fix the child's behaviour - the parents are also responsible! Even if the child moves to a different school, if the parents do not do the work this will be ongoing - it doesn't matter which school he goes to.

Someone said it's the school's responsibility to keep the other children safe without excluding the boy permanently - How? Keeping him in isolation?
I'd much rather home school my child and work with specialists to improve his behaviour before going back to school again.

Sadly, schools are not in the financial position to employ staff to support children one to one. They can't allocate someone to support him until individual funding comes through, which is a very lengthy process.

I think if I was you I would defer him a year, rejoin a nursery and use the year to fight for assessment.

I wouldn’t do this. Many parents have to appeal for an EHCP, some more than once, and if they do they won’t have a finalised EHCP before next September. Even if you want DS to redo reception, I would keep him in reception this year and push for an EHCNA then try to get deceleration written into the EHCP.

To the OP, I hope your son and you gets the help you need, sounds very stressful. At 5 his behaviour is his way of communicating a difficulty and the school should be supporting him so they can understand what that is so support can be put in place to help him. I would say not all schools are equal and it might be worth talking to other local parents about which schools are good at supporting children who may find it more challenging and need extra support.

I'd much rather home school my child and work with specialists to improve his behaviour before going back to school again.

You post this as someone who clearly hasn’t been through the system. Parents often find it easier and quicker to get support and input from specialists when DC remain on a school’s roll. Parents who EHE often find it more difficult to secure support even if their intention is to eventually re-enter the school system. You wouldn’t EHE if it meant your DC didn’t receive as much support.

OP you knew there were problems so what have you done? Who have you engaged with in terms of medical professionals? The school can’t solve all your problems for you.

Am dealing with a situation in a higher year atm.

By all accounts the child has been refered to a special unit but parent is refusing it.

So we are left to deal with a kid that teachers still can't manage and is pyschologically abusive to my child and physically abusive to another.

Its awful.

Parent is saying, 'why can't they all get along' and saying our children are being mean for leaving this kid out.

DH has dealt with child outside school at party. I refused to go, so he went with DS instead. Apparently it was a riot with parents no where to be seen.

In class the teacher spends all day trying to manage this kid. The class are particularly awful. And behind.

If your child is at a point where they are that bad, a specialist unit might be in their best interest - staff have experience and theres a better ratio and can give parents the right support.

And the other kids who deserve to be protected might actually get protection.

The idea that kids who are at this level should stay in mainstream school, just because they are young is wrong. What they need is adequate support. If a normal school can't provide that, then exclusion might not necessarily be a bad thing for all parties concerned.

Its not fair on other kids to let this continue. There needs to be a balance

There is case law and guidance around PEX and contrary to opinion on her - a school must have done everything reasonably possible to identify any sen and put in place support and met need prior to pex. That is not to say that schools don't pex and get away with it because the parents don't appeal. Which is how case law happened in that a child was hurting others, but as school hadn't met need, the child should not have been pex, following appeal by the parents. Five weeks is not long enough.

If your child is at a point where they are that bad, a specialist unit might be in their best interest - staff have experience and theres a better ratio and can give parents the right support.

It can be a battle and a very long wait to get a special school place unfortunately! My son is autistic and in mainstream and we want him to attend specialist setting and it’s going to be about a year long wait for us.

Luckily he has his own full-time one-to-one teaching assistant so his class aren’t affected by him as he usually does his own thing with his TA. I’m surprised the child you mentioned doesn’t have a dedicated teaching assistant if he was being offered a specialist school place? Usually a place is only offered if a mainstream school have put in all the available help first.

OP- since he is summer-born he can be delayed starting school, would it be an option to put him back into nursery/play-group if he isn’t coping well, push for an assessment if he is showing signs of neurodivergence (even persue this privately if finances allow) then push for an ECHP and extra support before he starts school. 4 is very little anyway but especially if there are other issues

Hi op,
the school need to urgently refer him to the educational psychologist for an assessment.
there should be a local authority inclusion team who will also need to complete an urgent referral and assessment.
the school should also have a schools well-being service via the local authority who can complete an assessment.
it may be worth reading the school send, behaviour, well-being policies to make sure they are following them. If they don’t you won’t get an ehcp down the line or it will make it harder.
asap he needs to be on part time hours to enable full time supervision from a TA to take place while he is waiting on assessments and referrals etc.
you can refer to camhs yourself via GP.
the sooner all of this is in motion the better op as referrals can take ages.
if the school are doing everything they should and all referrals are made and all avenues explored then you can eventually have enough evidence to get an ehcp for him.
keep a list of referrals and dates so you can chase them up.
I am sorry to say that this can all involve quite a lot of uphill pushing for the parents, lots of different professionals and acronyms.
such is the world of schools and send.
I wish you and your son the best of luck in accessing the support he needs.

Good Christ, some of the responses on this thread are nasty and show zero understanding of either SEND or the law.

I’m so glad both the parents and staff at my DD’s mainstream school had 100 times more empathy and awareness of inclusion that some MNers.

I doubt the school would kick hi out if mum was also working with him on his behaviour. Quite often some parents don't want to get involved.

I've seen a mum whose son hit another kids till they bled - 4-5 year olds , the mother said she wasn't bothering going into school after they had been asked to attend. She said the father should go. This wasn't the first time either.

The other children shouldn't need to suffer.
I assume the problems existed before 2 / nursery? I am interested in knowing what mum and dad have been doing till age 5 where he is still hitting and biting other people.

Why have people decided to diagnose this child?

So people are saying THEIR child shouldn't be hurt by this child - where do they propose the child goes? Solitary confinement until he's 18? Or is it OK for some other children to get hurt, just not yours? Moving the child to another school now will change nothing.

They need to work out how to prevent the behaviour, put in for assessments (the EP will probably be quicker than a full diagnosis).
Then an EHCP will enable placement in a specialist setting if necessary.

If he is hurting other children where do you propose he goes while they help him?
He can't be where he will cause harm to others. If they have left it that long . . .

If your child is disruptive and is hurting other children, then the school will step in to prevent harm to other children.
That being said, they owe a duty of care to your child and his needs to find the appropriate way to help your child whilst also protecting other children.

You need to talk to your SENCO.

Keep pushing for assessment. I would be very surprised if this isn't some kind of SEN. Does the school have a senco?

Maybe they are suggesting another setting? I think it’s early to be making this suggestion and they need to try everything they can, but as a teacher who has been bitten, scratched, hit by a chair, had a range of objects thrown at me and has to evacuate whole classes to protect 24 others from one child, sometimes full time mainstream just isn’t suited to all children.

@drspouse it's not solitary confinement if they have an adult 1 2 1 with them. No it certainly isn't ok for any child to get hurt. In fact watching friends getting hurt caused my child more distress than when they were getting injured.
Is it ok for my child to suffer trauma every day due to a child who cannot cope in a mainstream classroom environment?
Should I tell my child not to complain about being hurt again because they are not being inclusive in doing so?