To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

I think you’ve taken my post the wrong way, I’m fully supportive of kids with Sen having one myself but if things are that bad that regularly then it sounds like he’s in the wrong setting. I don’t advocate him being kicked out of school but that he needs to be in the right setting, again I know how hard that is to get the right setting but it makes a massive difference to future outcomes of the child and shouldn’t be such a fight.

what am I doing to challenge this? I am involved in our local parent carer forum, i assist with running a local Fb group advising Sen parents and assisting with ehcp queries, I’ve attended feedback sessions and given written feedback on the green paper. Is this enough to make any diff, probably not but I also work full time and have my own autistic child. I can’t see anything getting better, over the last 7 years since my child first had issues things have got worse and worse not better. I am lucky as my child is now at the right setting and I hate to see others going through the hell that we did

@Morph22010 no I interpreted your meaning, sorry if I didn't make this clear...
I'm saying (in line with what you clearly outlined) , it's not simply a case of removing a child unless and until "needs and triggers" have been identified and of course the type of setting considered. It seems many ousting here have minimal understanding of quite how stretched LA's and schools are currently, the backlogs and specialist shortages that fuel further delays, all the while both the school and child are somehow expected to cope, in some sort of awful limbo. This as I'm sure you've seen with your own family builds negative associations with school, the system and so much more that means parents are never quite the same again. I'm truly horrified at some of the advice on this thread and at the expectations of so many who deem any part of this system acceptable.
I'm glad you've found better routes for your child-it takes a lot of strength to get to that point, (I know firsthand too, but again MS was not the problem it was the lack of knowledge of SLT's, unlawful practices and demands coming from MAT's). All fine now but jeez what a nightmare.

I’m no expert but I’m surprised that the list of measures are quite punitive to some extent and a bit meaningless in others. Eg he sounds beyond having school policies being explained. Someone needs to properly get to understand what is causing the behaviour if they can. He should be getting assessed by now surely.

It’s not inclusion though is it. It’s trying to do things on the cheap by pretending it’s inclusion, which is then crap for everyone, the child, the other children in the class, the parents and the teacher, no one is happy

Apparently there were only 6000 responses to the SEND green paper. Coupled with the current focus on Elective Home Education , if you think things are bad in mainstream now, the direction it's moving in is likely to be a whole lot worse. Parental preferences over school settings and elective home education are on the chopping board. The vision seems to be huge MATS. I'll be keeping an eye on thr board members to where the money flows...

Plus mandatory mediation to slow the process down and a focus on keeping children in main stream yes definitely about to get a whole lot worse, I responded although I am probably less effected to some extent as my child is in specialist and will be till he’s 18. People without Sen kids aren’t interested as think it doesn’t effect them but will effect them more

Yes it's a source of despair to me that non SEND parents actually choose largely to avoid taking the time to respond to surveys, educate themselves a little better or dare I say it consider the fact that their own children are and will be further impacted by these changes. The additional compelling parents to enter meditation (which never works let's be honest) just means yet more children face huge delays to receiving adequate and appropriate provision.

‘Doesn’t have a clue?’ They have to protect other children that’s their priority. He should already know how to behave and if not should have been taken to a doctor who could refer him. This is not the schools responsibility.

Not all children are ready for school at the same age. Perhaps you should wait a year before entering him in school.

@Johnnysgirl the OPs child is in reception where no tables and chairs are required. The poster in question also had a child in eyfs. I work in a school and have been a teacher for 14 years. So it might sound boggling, but if it removes the danger for 30 kids then yes, remove the tables and chairs!!!!

@threatmatrix not the schools responsibility? Of course it’s the school’s responsibility. Behaviour isn’t always down to parenting! The OP themselves has suggested the issue was raised in a previous setting. Any issue’s behaviour or otherwise are partly the schools responsibility otherwise I’ve just had training (inset) for no reason!! Schools have to be seen to be putting things into place for children to ensure that they are doing everything in their power to make sure they are safeguarding the other children and the child in question.

I've had three children in reception class, (at various schools), they absolutely use tables and chairs .
They don't sit at them all day long, but they certainly do plenty of table work. It's not nursery class.
And what happens next year? This child has displayed the same behaviour since he was two, in different settings.

Where did I say they don’t use tables and chairs. I said they aren’t required!!! Doesn’t mean I’m
saying don’t have them!! But I’m a situation where a child throws them…then remove!

Regardless the OPs DC is not throwing tables and chairs, this is someone else on the thread.

My main points stand!! The school needs to support the child, not give up on them

And I'm disagreeing that they're not required 🤦‍♀️

If a child is throwing tables and chairs it really isn't the furniture that needs to be removed from the room.

If they don’t have tables and chairs to throw then they will throw something else. The tables and chairs aren’t the issue.

Just to clarify, the child is mostly well behaved but has had 3 hitting incidents and one biting incident over a 5 week period? During which he was trying to settle into a new environment with minimal support?

That seems relatively minor compared to some of the other behaviors people are objecting to.

I don't think 'a child tried to drown my DD so OP's son should clearly be excluded' is really a good response.

one child shouldn’t be prioritised over another, and you clearly don’t understand the referral system as you can take your child to the doctor, the doctor can refer but from what i found out, before the paediatrician refers you onto the neurodevelopmental pathway, school have to report to the paediatrician what behaviour they have identified and what steps they have taken to address this behaviour.

If school haven’t referred to the educational psychologist or other professionals at their disposal, theres a risk a child’s referral could be delayed as school would have to do this first and then the paediatrician may watch amd wait to see if this helps before the neurodevelopmental pathway referral takes place. A pathway with a years waiting list! So yes, it is the school’s responsibility to get this right for this child to avoid any unnecessary delays in getting a diagnosis

The rights and needs of well-behaved children who come to school ready to learn should take priority. I can't believe anyone is arguing otherwise. It's insane to put good kids in the firing line while waiting for "evidence" that involves another child that bites, punches and generally terrorizes his classmates.

Tell that to your mp then, that is the Sen system we have in this country

Stop implying that a child who needs more support doesn't want to learn and is a bad child. Don't be a twit.

"The rights and needs of well-behaved children who come to school ready to learn should take priority. I can't believe anyone is arguing otherwise. It's insane to put good kids in the firing line while waiting for "evidence" that involves another child that bites, punches and generally terrorizes his classmates."

You are saying that children with disabilities ( because many of these children will have a disability) are bad and should have less priority than other children.

My child with autism and a severe learning disability who will need constant adult care for all of his life is one of the biters and hitters.

Is he in a mainstream?

This is known as discrimination. All children have the right to learn in school. Whether or not they have a disability.