Bring back National Service!

[AlternativelyWired]

This was often the cry of my late dad who did do his a National Service and my own thoughts wander in that direction at times and wonder if it would be a good thing?

To be fair I know next to nothing about it, I think it's just an automatic brief thought I have (thanks to my dad) when parts of society are behaving appallingly especially with antisocial behaviour locally. They'd have to start about age 10 or 11 in some cases though!

Is there a good and non-biased source of information on this? I'd love to know more about it and wish I could ask my dad about his experiences but sadly he's deceased.

We were a military family. My grandad served in WW2, my brothers were military, my dad did his National Service, uncle in the Army along with a cousin or two. Only the males of the family showed interest until I came along but I have bad asthma so couldn't join.

Part of me thinks the general concept of independence, discipline, respect, team work, learning skills etc would be a good thing and that's the reason for those brief thoughts.

On the other hand, on a very personal level, I would hate for my ds to be gone for 2 years at such a young age. They are still so young at 16. My brother joined up at 16 and broke my mother's heart and mine. I was only 2 and for years I would be deeply upset whenever he had to go back to wherever he was stationed around the world.

I also think that whilst many would benefit, far too many would find it traumatic to be away from their families and there be no choice about it.

Why just males too? If it were brought back (highly unlikely I would have thought) would females also be signed up?

I think my dad's generation saw it as doing their bit but I don't know what it involved so I'm going to go and find out more. If anyone can point me in the direction of a good book I'd be very grateful. I'd also love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Do other countries still have this? Why? What do they do?

A lot of questions, I know. I'm autistic and this has as of tonight become my latest special interest.

@Dotjones Get real - do you have any comprehension of how economically damaging it would be to the country to have all young people out of the proper economy/workforce for three years?

You should like a stereotypical retired Colonel type from the late 50s moaning about young people and loss of empire.

All this talk about 'military discipline' etc etc...so many secondary schools now have over the top strict rules that are borderline military style (Michaela school etc) that it is turning so many teens off education completely. It also doesn't help that education (in England anyway) is so heavily academic based which is just no good for everyone.
So many teenagers are bored, full of energy and frustration and this sadly often turns to bad behaviour and violence.
We need good quality coursework based vocational schools that give children skills and a sense of a future purpose in life. Community based projects should be part of the school curriculum.

No thanks

But maybe you could start and belong to a camp for anyone who feels as you do

@Dotjones would all females be put on compulsory contraception so they can't have babies until they have served their time in a 'camp' ?

And decent living wages for their parents so the children can be provided for properly. Money doesn’t solve everything but too little of it can create a lot of problems.

@Dotjones you really, really hate young people, don't you?

The majority of young people are kind, already working, caring, educated and thoroughly decent. Put them all in your wannabe Borstal and they will learn how to be little shits because they are being punished without having done anything wrong.

Utterly stupid idea.

Wastes the time and energies of young people who already have a good idea of their path into a valuable career.

Open season for bullying and abuse - if something is optional and voluntary then good people in charge (assuming the best case scenario that those in charge are good) can reject those who aren't suitable. If it's compulsory then the worst and most horrible kids are going tio be there and can't be ejected. If those in charge aren't the best then obviously the bullies with positively thrive and be given free rein.

There are a lot of positives that young people gain from voluntary service of all sorts of varieties but you can't spread those benefits by making it compulsory. The very fact of it being voluntary is a key aspect of why it does good.

Honestly there are many in the UK who when you scratch the surface drone on about national service, corporal punishment in schools, prisons being run like concentration camps etc etc.

Mainly be people who haven't experienced these things of course.

Honestly, I thought @Dotjones was having a joke. I laughed and didn’t take the post seriously.

The key for me is that people aren't able to leave until they've done three years of productive labour and following the discipline. Those who refuse to engage are forced to remain until they are 30, at which point if they still won't comply they're sent to prison.

How lucky for the vulnerable to potentially have a group of carers who didn’t want to be there in the first place, and then fucked around enough to be made to keep doing it (even worse at that point as now they have nothing to lose) until they turn 30. When you force people to do things they don’t want to do it generally doesn’t end well, and with the activities you describe that will impact not only the ‘conscripts’ themselves but the community services they are meant to serve.

I can imagine it’s the last thing the military want!

Its also probably a bit of a wasted couple of years for many people who have not interest in it, but do have interests elsewhere re work.

I could maybe see the sense in advertising it more as a great achievement to complete x time in the military if you don’t know where you want to go in life. But even then that might not produce the recruits they want.

I agree that if young men had to do it, young women would need to be required to do the same or equivalent - I think I’d offer “military or other service” to both sexes if I were tasked with bringing this in (say it had been decided by government) because I’m not at all comfortable with the idea of compelling women into what could lead to a combat situation.

Bloody hell, just read the updates! Putting young people in camps? What on Earth are you on!

No that isn’t a good idea.

And the points a pp raises re bullying are also good ones.

On the other hand I’m very in favour of jury service - as a pp said, it’s vital for juries to be composed of your “peers” - and randomly selected people are as close as we’re going to get on getting that right. It’s only a couple of weeks.

I have also wondered if “House of Lords service” for a year or so would be a good idea - so you run it like jury service but people get paid to be the second House of Parliament for that time. Completely random so divorced from political parties.

It's unimaginable but I wouldn't mind a set up for rouge teenagers who actively terrorise society and avoid prison constantly.

A year in the army would sort out the little shits, give them an opportunity to retrain and see another side of life before they're otherwise inevitable prison sentences in their future.

The alternative non military 'community service' that many people suggest.... ironically a lot a young people already take part in community volunteering or youth groups, sports teams etc but once they get to GCSE's in school they find it's too much to be doing both. They have so many subjects and exams they simply don't have time. I have family members involved in leading Guides/Scouts/Boys Brigade etc and the drop out rate once members reach GCSE age is massive.
One family member was volunteering at the local Boys Brigade group as a young leader/helper but once she hit GCSEs she simply couldn't do both. She was doing the usual 8 or 9 GCSE subjects - half of which she had no interest in but they were compulsory (as in normal for GCSE).
She wanted to be doing 'community service', she enjoyed it.
That Boys Brigade group has since closed. Not because no boys want to attend. But because of lack of leaders. Ironic 🙄

@EmeraldShamrock1 wouldn't it be better to give those 'little shits' a chance at a better life at a much earlier age through good quality vocational education (as I suggested up thread). A much more purposeful education might stop them turning that way in the first place.

My husband is a colour sgnt. Coming up to 20 years. He wouldn't want people that didn't want to be there.

Discussed this many times with work colleagues (secondary school). My idea would be to do 2 years of 'service' between18-25, so would fit around apprenticeships, pre/post uni etc. Military for those that want to, but also community based programmes.

I can see how that might have worked in the days of free uni, but for so many graduates nowadays, they're already leaving with massive debt/graduate tax on their shoulders and then, with the housing market, may not own their own home for decades. I'm not convinced that making them wait for yet another two years before they can even begin to start making a proper start in life would go down well.

Politicians pulling up the rope ladder behind them and scrapping 'free' (national investment in) university has already led a lot of people from poorer backgrounds to be terrified away from it; I can see this just widening the pool of those who, whilst being academically suitable, would just conclude that it isn't a realistic prospect for them.

I suppose it could work for those going into apprenticeships or trades, but only if it was something directly linked to their planned career progression and not just an unrelated 'placeholder', effectively wasting two years of their productive career life and putting down financial roots.

Honestly, I thought @Dotjones was having a joke. I laughed and didn’t take the post seriously.

same

Oh yes, perish the thought that someone might raise their voice at the little cherubs and give them 'issues' or that for once in their mollycoddled lives they will experience a bit of discipline!
No, it wouldn't work now, more's the pity.

The majority of young people would instead be forced to attend camps with military style discipline but where they'd be made to do work that benefitted the community

why only young people? Why do you only owe society something if you are young? Surely it should be those 55 year olds on their fat final salary pensions who have no mortgages and have time to spare? (for clarity I don't think anyone should be doing national service)

as a pp said, it’s vital for juries to be composed of your “peers” - and randomly selected people are as close as we’re going to get on getting that right. It’s only a couple of weeks It can be months, and you lose a lot of earnings during that time. The allowance you get from the government barely covers expenses.

perish the thought that someone might raise their voice at the little cherubs and give them 'issues' or that for once in their mollycoddled lives they will experience a bit of discipline

Oh rubbish. We're way past the era of doffing our caps at our "betters" and being bullied by permanent army staff who don't really want kids who don't want to be there anyway. And there's no value in forcing people to work in care homes and the like - would you want to be looked after by some kid who didn't want to be there?

I have a German friend (we're mid 40s) who had to do national service for 6mnths after graduating but it wasn't military, he drove an ambulance and found it a useful experience. Didn't have to live in a camp like some of the nuttier comments on here though! I believe Germany have stopped the program now. Some of the comments on this post are crazy, most young people are useful members of society why treat them like prisoners?!

They seem to manage fine in other countries.