Bring back National Service!

[AlternativelyWired]

This was often the cry of my late dad who did do his a National Service and my own thoughts wander in that direction at times and wonder if it would be a good thing?

To be fair I know next to nothing about it, I think it's just an automatic brief thought I have (thanks to my dad) when parts of society are behaving appallingly especially with antisocial behaviour locally. They'd have to start about age 10 or 11 in some cases though!

Is there a good and non-biased source of information on this? I'd love to know more about it and wish I could ask my dad about his experiences but sadly he's deceased.

We were a military family. My grandad served in WW2, my brothers were military, my dad did his National Service, uncle in the Army along with a cousin or two. Only the males of the family showed interest until I came along but I have bad asthma so couldn't join.

Part of me thinks the general concept of independence, discipline, respect, team work, learning skills etc would be a good thing and that's the reason for those brief thoughts.

On the other hand, on a very personal level, I would hate for my ds to be gone for 2 years at such a young age. They are still so young at 16. My brother joined up at 16 and broke my mother's heart and mine. I was only 2 and for years I would be deeply upset whenever he had to go back to wherever he was stationed around the world.

I also think that whilst many would benefit, far too many would find it traumatic to be away from their families and there be no choice about it.

Why just males too? If it were brought back (highly unlikely I would have thought) would females also be signed up?

I think my dad's generation saw it as doing their bit but I don't know what it involved so I'm going to go and find out more. If anyone can point me in the direction of a good book I'd be very grateful. I'd also love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Do other countries still have this? Why? What do they do?

A lot of questions, I know. I'm autistic and this has as of tonight become my latest special interest.

Who would pay?

No. Please stop with the baby boomer label. We all hate negative labels being applied to us.

Baby boomers don’t talk about national service. At least not in the country I live in. Most baby boomers here remember something worse - compulsory conscription for the Vietnam war. Males had their names drawn in a lottery once they turned 21. If their name was drawn they were off to a war in Vietnam. (Young men going to a war that our country had no business being in).

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Also against Jury Service as other posters have mentioned.

I don't think anyone should be forced into something they don't want to do.

Agree that a lot of people who say bring it back are too old and have never done it!

I don't agree with it at all in any country and I think it's disgusting and wrong.

Jury service is a privilege of citizenship. People need to try to imagine life in a state where juries would not be composed of your peers.

I have often thought this thought I would also add a refresher year at retirement age as well. Some of the rudest and most entitled customers I have ever come across have been older people in there 50s 60s and 70s. So a refresher year before retirment might sort out the bad attitude and remind people of the importance of politeness and not treating Shop assistants, waitresses or call center staff like dirt.

Agreed.

The army did wonders for my two younger brothers.

My husband is from a country with compulsory military service for men and women, and that place churns out some of the most capable, forthright people I've ever met.

But National Service was from 1949-60. Actual baby boomers.

Who do you think ‘ boomers’ are?

boomers were born 1946-1964

so we’re not old enough when they reached 18 in 1962 to do NS

I believe that every person should give 2 years of their lives to a form of National Service. Military or Civilian. For that service you are entitled to citizens rights, benefits, the right to vote, passport, free medical care etc.
If you don’t serve, then you are not a citizen.

Bringing back National Service would probably be popular with some core Conservative voters, but I would expect its effect on the economy to be to inhibit growth. One of the factors constraining growth and driving inflation up is a shortage of staff in many sectors. This would make those issues worse.

For the above reasons, I expect it will be government policy within months.

It's just such a fucking waste and personally I'd rather dream of a world where we didn't need armies or war. Imagine bringing your son up, teaching him to read, ride a bike, kissing away tears just for him to be shot miles away from home in sham war for a crazy arsehole. I can't comprehend it. I don't want the thing to make my sons 'real men' being blowing another kids brains out. It's not my dream.

You have a very inaccurate and ignorant view of what the military actually is. How many times have we seen our military personnel on the front pages with a gun in recent times? You're more likely to have seen them fixing broken bridges in devastating floods, stepping in for drivers during shortages or vaccinating people. The Armed Forces are about a lot more than "blowing brains out".

My dad was born in 1940 and just missed doing National Service-he often talks about being relieved he missed it. He reckoned he would have hated it and certainly wouldn’t have wanted it for his brothers/sons/grandsons.

So anyone alive today who did do it will be older than 82!

My dad was a lifelong soldier, i met my DH when we were both serving. Yes, you are trained to kill people who are trying to kill you. That's not an awful thing since most of what armies are about these days is avoiding having to do that.

The job i did involved highly sophisticated and expensive equipment. Whenever we did joint exercises with militaries with conscripts we had to put stickers or covers on the most expensive/sensitive kit, so they didn't break it. (they used to make us tea and snacks, we used to help them avoid getting extras and so on for their untidy uniforms)

Some conscripted armies work well. Switzerland has an interesting system, and Finland has already been mentioned.

but.

Excluding anyone with SEN, it’s not a bad idea for those late teens who are not in education or working. It might offer some the discipline and structure they are clearly crying out for.

why does anyone think it's the military's job to do this. Parents, schools and society should be training young people to be members of that society. Not the military. See pp above who mentioned newer recruits being lazy arses who don't actually understand what the military is about.

Also, i am against anything like this that is targeted at only one sex. It should be all or nothing. With the choice to do the Social Year that they had in Germany. (or IIRC from the early 80s, 10 years in the reserves or THW or something)

Dreadful idea. My family members who were forced to endure this hated every second. It just wouldn’t wash these days either thankfully. Outdated notions of discipline.

My dad just turned 81 and he just missed out on doing National Service. So you'd have to be about 82 or older to have done it.

I think the military may benefit some for some of the reasons you state. And sometimes people who have no family can find their family in the military. My dh began to go off the rails when he was 16 and ended up joining the RAF - it definitely taught him life skills. It was also a heavy drinking culture though, particularly for the young ones, and he has a crap relationship with his mum who essentially gave up on him and they've never been close since.

No, I don't think they should bring back national service. I think it would actively disbenefit many and there is no way I'd be happy with my son or daughter being forced into it just because it exists.

I come from a country with compulsory male military service. It's now put on indefinitely hold (can be reinstate immediately if needed) and it was never a good thing.

My dad worked for the military and said most 18 year olds weren't keen on it, most would never go into any direction of the jobs you could do in the military and they were always disadvantaged regarding start of uni or employment.

You could get out due to certain condition like asthma or you could opt for social work (originally deemed as a punishment for not going the military route but it became a badge of honour and the health and care system relied on these people).

I have friends in the militray and they went for a variety of reasons but they did it because they wanted, not because society deems it important.

Drafting teens because you think they will learn to be better people is just a ridiculous way to dominate their way of life.

I think they should for teens who are going the wrong way in life.

The other day a 14 year old lad and a 13 year old girl stabbed a 14 year old to death by me.

Something must change. to many children killing children, and why? Because there's no punishment or rules in place.

One of the main reasons national service ended was that the armed forces were spending most of their time and budget on it for very little return. It took the focus of the "professional" soldiers/airmen when they should have been focussing on their training and readiness.

It was also hugely disruptive for the economy (only a few occupations were exempt from national service)

The US uses military service instead of prison for some teens and while I think it may be good for some people, I very much doubt it is a replacement for early intervention, councelling and structure in civilian life.

Work with teens before it gets wrong, offer a decent alternative to hanging around in the park and drinking/smoking on the way to violence.

This society is not willing to put money on teen activities. Everything is either expensive or just for under teens. What teens need is a safe space, where are youth clubs who offer this? Where are youth workers who don't judge or ask questions but just offer support?

All this costs money the government is not willing to spend.

The other day a 14 year old lad and a 13 year old girl stabbed a 14 year old to death by me.

why do you think other young (and maybe not so young) should be exposed to stabby young thugs?

I'd like to see a form of national service reintroduced. It wouldn't be military service except for those that really wanted to go down that route. The majority of young people would instead be forced to attend camps with military style discipline but where they'd be made to do work that benefitted the community. Say for three years between the ages of 18 and 25. A day would be along the lines of
0600 Get up, exercise, military style drill.
0830 Breakfast
0900 Labour - litter picking, helping in care homes, whatever jobs are needed but society deems not worth paying for.
1200 Lunch
1230 More labour
1800 Dinner
1830 Drill
2000 Lights out.

It should be a cross between an open prison and an army barracks. The key for me is that people aren't able to leave until they've done three years of productive labour and following the discipline. Those who refuse to engage are forced to remain until they are 30, at which point if they still won't comply they're sent to prison.

@Dotjones bloody hell-seriously?!

Sieg heil!

Produces evil "I suffered so should you" embittered types.

You mean like the Netherlands? No jury system. Judgement by qualified magistrates who actually understand the law. It works perfectly well. Not every country without a jury system is a dictatorship - in fact very many are not.