Bring back National Service!

[AlternativelyWired]

This was often the cry of my late dad who did do his a National Service and my own thoughts wander in that direction at times and wonder if it would be a good thing?

To be fair I know next to nothing about it, I think it's just an automatic brief thought I have (thanks to my dad) when parts of society are behaving appallingly especially with antisocial behaviour locally. They'd have to start about age 10 or 11 in some cases though!

Is there a good and non-biased source of information on this? I'd love to know more about it and wish I could ask my dad about his experiences but sadly he's deceased.

We were a military family. My grandad served in WW2, my brothers were military, my dad did his National Service, uncle in the Army along with a cousin or two. Only the males of the family showed interest until I came along but I have bad asthma so couldn't join.

Part of me thinks the general concept of independence, discipline, respect, team work, learning skills etc would be a good thing and that's the reason for those brief thoughts.

On the other hand, on a very personal level, I would hate for my ds to be gone for 2 years at such a young age. They are still so young at 16. My brother joined up at 16 and broke my mother's heart and mine. I was only 2 and for years I would be deeply upset whenever he had to go back to wherever he was stationed around the world.

I also think that whilst many would benefit, far too many would find it traumatic to be away from their families and there be no choice about it.

Why just males too? If it were brought back (highly unlikely I would have thought) would females also be signed up?

I think my dad's generation saw it as doing their bit but I don't know what it involved so I'm going to go and find out more. If anyone can point me in the direction of a good book I'd be very grateful. I'd also love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Do other countries still have this? Why? What do they do?

A lot of questions, I know. I'm autistic and this has as of tonight become my latest special interest.

If Borstal was in the modern era basically a trauma informed boarding school out of area that also offered therapeutic intervention alongside a "basic" slimmed down education I think it could be done well.

It could have the potential to minimise the number of young people who end up in the youth justice system and eventually the CJS.

If you took a 13 year old lad, who is failing in a PRU because he's not attending, has gang affiliations and no real home life and a childhood of trauma to date, and offered him a place in such a unit it could be life changing.

No to National Service. If the kids don’t want to be there then they are a liability. I served for 24 years and on the whole had a great time, but there were periods when I would have given my right arm to be able to walk away - and I know that during those periods I was a pretty shit soldier. Looking back now, during one particularly awful period I am astounded that I was able to carry on. Sure it made me stronger eventually, but Christ, the state of my MH at that point was shocking, and no-one even gave it a second thought.

Part of me thinks the general concept of independence, discipline, respect, team work, learning skills etc would be a good thing and that's the reason for those brief thoughts
However, I would make more use of the cadets in schools, maybe even make them compulsory (not for the kids, but for the schools to run one) for all those reasons above. I think if the cadets were more visible, more accessible to 14-16 year olds then we may be able to ‘tame’ some of the disaffected youth of today, not necessarily to join the military, but to become more valuable members of society.

Exactly this. My mother is 83; when she started university she was amongst a mixed cohort of those who had just done their national service, and those who were straight from school and no longer required to do it. Reviewing dates, there will have been very few who did national service who were not born before the start of WWII.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow they can learn those things in most parts of the UK now!

Discussed this many times with work colleagues (secondary school). My idea would be to do 2 years of 'service' between18-25, so would fit around apprenticeships, pre/post uni etc. Military for those that want to, but also community based programmes.

Completely agree. It would be the chance to turn around their life that, sadly, the majority never get.

I doubt it. I’ve worked in both and the last thing I shouted at some reprobate from the dwp on the phone was “you’re so fucking useless you’d be sacked if you worked in asdas!” Which let’s face it 90% of those working for hmrc, dwp or dvla and liz truss’s cabinet bloody would be. Incompetent schiesters

There's some really interesting points here, thank you. My dad's remarks were flippant really but said with the belief that there needed to be something similar for the modern world. We live in such a beautiful world world filled with such ugliness and I wish there was a magic wand for that. NS isn't the answer but something that takes the positive aspects like discipline, independence etc and uses them to give our young people the skills they need for life. Not training to bring about death of to die but training for life.

Definitely not. National Service was inefficient and costly ! Why bring it back ? Even the military were against it. Conscripts aren't the best . Like hell I would send my children to fight for the Crown. Not a chance

Nope. Noway. If my boys want to join that's their choice but to force people into it noway. Forces wouldnt like it either bo doubt having to train people who dont want to be there and dont have the skills

If it was done correctly with from the standpoint of therapeutic intervention, education, skills/interest based vocational training and viewed as high level support rather than punishment then it could work.

But, let's face it, the government would run it as cheaply as possible. It would be contracted out to the highest bidder, staffed by borderline sadists, and any sort of therapeutic intervention would be sacrificed at the altar of the right-wing press in order to appease the "give 'em a good hiding and gruel for breakfast" crowd.

Lowest bidder, that should say.

If they had a choice between a year or so of community service and military service, maybe. But I don't think anyone should be forced into being shot at and dying.

Something like enforced community service would be useful to society and also prepare young people for work, thus benefiting them too.

Look at the Russian army. Conscripts who don't necessarily agree with Putin's concept. Compare it to the Ukrainian army, who defiantly do agree with their cause

I know there are other things impacting on the relative success and failure of the two armies. But it's telling to me, that the army that truly believes in its cause appears, at the moment to have the upper hand.

I don't think any conscripted army can overcome an army that truly believes in their cause.

Those born between 1946 and 1964 are baby boomers and most would have been too young for national service. Their fathers would have done it.

I don’t believe in military national service, especially when so many young people have MH issues but I do believe there should be a service for young people to learn additional life skills to keep them off the streets since most youth clubs closed down.

It's just the old fashioned version of a catchy sound bite.

A simple solution to complex problems for the hard of thinking.

@MrsCarson
Signing on for selective service at 18 is still obligatory for all American males in order to get government backed student loans. You can avoid it by securing private loans, obv with far different terms.

DS signed on. None of my DDs had to. I'm not sure this is fair, but the idea is that the armed forces would have pregnancy and babies to consider if women had to sign up.

The US has large reserve forces, and warfare has stopped being so costly in terms of manpower, so conscription is very unlikely in the future.

The cheapest way to fix the problems would be to fund small classes in schools and provide excellent pastoral care. Funding social services and mental health services, providing free legal aid, and helping women out of domestic violence ould also mean big savings in the justice system. Plus of course going after fathers who are currently able to dodge financial responsibility to their children.

Vocational training in schools. Plenty of kids out there who would be fantastic with hands on training in trades but getting that training is like hens teeth and too late. No everyone is cut out for uni but that’s the direction schools push these kids into so your choices are uni or crap jobs and top up benefits.

You watch these kids in my area and they’d do fantastic in a trade apprenticeship but they’ve already fucked up their lives by that point because they couldn’t stick being sat in a class learning geography or history or a language of a country they’ll never visit so they skived off and got in tow with dealers, scammers, shoplifters etc. there’s one hairdressers in my village and two in the next village along. Every year they all get loads of applications for a single apprenticeship. The garage only takes an apprentice every three years. The blacksmiths only takes on once the last ones finished up timeserved. Where do the rest of these kids go? The ones who didn’t get the start? Shit jobs or higher paying crime is where. The council only take on four apprentices a year and those in the villages are screwed before they even apply with the hundreds of other hopefuls because we’ve got crap public transport and no public transport on Sunday for most of them here. The only way to guarantee your kid a decent trade is to have friends or family doing it and taking them on.

I would use every ounce of my wealth and privilege and power to keep my sons out of any conscription and would protest with violence if necessary against any attempt to bring it back.

Old men will not feed my children into their meat grinders.

Ask Russia's mothers how they feel about conscription.

If you were basically made to carry on working @TheHateIsNotGood , wouldn’t people just not retire from the jobs they already had?

Currently on a bus stop and just watched some teenagers throw one of those e-scooters over a bridge

I wouldn't fancy idiots with this mentality being given a firearm!

There was much less vandalism and trouble when people did national service. They were occupied.
Unlike today where louts who drink roam the streets looking for someone to beat up or kill.
Awful.

It's always good for everyone else's son's I find.

You know, the wrong uns' 🙄