Bring back National Service!

[AlternativelyWired]

This was often the cry of my late dad who did do his a National Service and my own thoughts wander in that direction at times and wonder if it would be a good thing?

To be fair I know next to nothing about it, I think it's just an automatic brief thought I have (thanks to my dad) when parts of society are behaving appallingly especially with antisocial behaviour locally. They'd have to start about age 10 or 11 in some cases though!

Is there a good and non-biased source of information on this? I'd love to know more about it and wish I could ask my dad about his experiences but sadly he's deceased.

We were a military family. My grandad served in WW2, my brothers were military, my dad did his National Service, uncle in the Army along with a cousin or two. Only the males of the family showed interest until I came along but I have bad asthma so couldn't join.

Part of me thinks the general concept of independence, discipline, respect, team work, learning skills etc would be a good thing and that's the reason for those brief thoughts.

On the other hand, on a very personal level, I would hate for my ds to be gone for 2 years at such a young age. They are still so young at 16. My brother joined up at 16 and broke my mother's heart and mine. I was only 2 and for years I would be deeply upset whenever he had to go back to wherever he was stationed around the world.

I also think that whilst many would benefit, far too many would find it traumatic to be away from their families and there be no choice about it.

Why just males too? If it were brought back (highly unlikely I would have thought) would females also be signed up?

I think my dad's generation saw it as doing their bit but I don't know what it involved so I'm going to go and find out more. If anyone can point me in the direction of a good book I'd be very grateful. I'd also love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Do other countries still have this? Why? What do they do?

A lot of questions, I know. I'm autistic and this has as of tonight become my latest special interest.

It would be like a modern young version of Dad's Army but in peace time with the reluctant amateurs 😁

Could you send a link for the statistics please?

A few years in the military is a great way to start your career but I support it being a choice. Dd is in the military!

The normal age is now 18/21 or older now btw. Youngest in DD's group is 18

No way

Nope. My dads Irish. No way would my kids be joining the army.

I'm surprised anyone with a military family would have this opinion. We are a military family and my husband absolutely does not want to serve with people who have been conscripted.

@Ship me too. I've served on Jury Service and some of my fellow jurors left me cold. At least I wasn't on a really serious case (it was bad enough)...one bloke said 'he didn't care and would vote with the majority'. I am completely sure that many innocent people have been sent down by incompetence and/or disinterested jurors.

From what I know most men who did National Service found it an annoying waste of 2 years and interrupted their jobs and lives. Many had left school at 15 so had been working for 3 years already once National Service time came round. I don't know if employers were required to keep their jobs open for them. It must have been a right pain to have taken on a school leaver and once you've taught them the job they disappear for 2 years and you would I assume have to find replacement staff. I think if a young man was doing an apprenticeship they could defer until it's finished - not sure if that's correct and I also think university students could defer.
Back in the 40s/50s it was not unusual for 18/19 year olds to be married and have a baby.
So basically, they had finished school and were getting on with life - settling down, earning a wage etc and then that all had to be put on hold for 2 years to play soldiers.
Most just found it a big waste of time.

Both my DH & I have grandfathers who were conscientious objectors and imprisoned. Mine relented but was too sick to go to war. I think it’s insane to force anyone to do it. If nobody ever volunteered, who would fight all the politicians wars for them?

Until you or a loved one is on trial for something and the wait for a jury is so long you have to hang around in jail for months on end because no one wants to give up their time to do it or you're tried without a jury....

no-one and other countries armies may have easily defeated us

Jury service I’m fine with. Not this though

My now adult sons were signed up for Selective service in the US. It used to be a requirement if you wanted student loans. I wasn't too happy about it, as it can be used to call up men for fighting if needed. They have changed the rules on it though.
My cousin had to do military service in Spain as an 18 year old, not great.
I don't think doing military service is a good idea.

It’s only ever suggested by people who know they’re too old for it.

I met my husband while he was doing his NS here in Germany.He was a Conscientious Objector and was so brought into social services and was working in the same hospital as I was nursing in .He and all his fellow 'Zivis' as they were called were an absolute Godsend in the hospitals at the time and my husband maintains that although it was tough at times it was a very enriching experience and really gave him a chance to grow up and focus on what he wanted in life .He would however not have lasted a single second in the Military.The Wehrpflicht or Zivildienst was abolished 2011 in Germany

Would l send my son into a forced military service where he’d learn how to use guns and kill people?

No fucking way

I’m not opposed to it at all. Currently on a bus stop and just watched some teenagers throw one of those e-scooters over a bridge. They could be doing something a bit more productive…

A town near us had to close their multi-storey car park down completely, because the teenagers who used it as their regular hangout had started getting bored and chucking all manner of stuff off the top - big, heavy stuff like bikes and shopping trolleys.

My issue with this is twofold, really. The unruly kids could either be transformed by the discipline in the forces for the huge long-term benefit of them and society; or they could just learn how to be even more aggressive and physically dominant, with the 'bonus' of now knowing how to fight more efficiently and use weapons.

On the flip-side, sensitive kids like my DS would find it an utter, utter nightmare and would be changed irreparably for the much worse. Of course, he isn't perfect and brings challenges with him, but not of the physical/aggressive/antisocial kind that one might think could be 'cured' with National Service.

For kids like him - in fact, I'd say most kids, they'd be effectively being punished for the antisocial behaviour of a minority of kids that they don't even know - in even greater proportions for the girls, who would surely not be exempt these days (and could you argue fairly that they should be exempt anyway, unless pregnant or having young children to care for?).

Good point

Have not read the thread. As an ex-Soldier i think i speak for the majority of current and former members of the service when i say "no bloody way!"

And what if it was your son, husband, brother who was doing his National Service (bloody stupid name too - I mean, when does the nation serve the majority of us?) and then war broke out and because they were in 'training', they were sent to actually fight.

I get the idea of discipline and employment etc but no-one should be made to learn how to kill and defend unless it was a career they chose personally

Rather than bringing back National services they should bring back Borstal. Sort out some of these horrible little scrotes who seem to be untouchable. They need to be taught that they are not, and actions have consequences. Maybe it will teach them before it's too late, saving some teenagers from a long prison sentence for stabbing another youngster to death

have now read more of the thread.
My answer is still no. In Germany, pacifists could do a social year instead and often drove OAPs to hospital visits and such things. When it stopped, this volunteering stopped and caused a bit of a problem. So a Social Year was introduced that you can do after school up to age 25 (I think). You get paid pocket money, so not everyone can do it, but it is open for everyone, not just men. Both my DCs did it and it was great.

I can see something like this being really useful.

PP mentioned not wanting to train too many people to use weapons. As long as it's really difficult to get of them, it's not an issue.

Would l send my son into a forced military service where he’d learn how to use guns and kill people?

No fucking way

The military is a highly unusual vocation, isn't it? Every other job out there (theoretically) has strict measures in place to ensure employee safety as far as humanly possible and to promote anti-discrimination and equality.

It's the only job I can think of where they actively tell you that you may well die in the course of it - may effectively be ORDERED to go and die, whilst often killing foreigners, as instructed.

It is what it is, but it most definitely must be an active choice for those who WANT to do the job; it's most certainly 100% inappropriate to be forced into it. We always hear "You know all the risks when you decide to sign up" - how can you possibly be expected to face those same risks when you had no say whatsoever in being born and merely surviving for 18 years?

It’s only ever suggested by people who know they’re too old for it.

Reminds me of the MEN in charge of Scientology who (allegedly) have developed all kinds of 'required' behaviours when giving birth, including maintaining complete silence throughout.

Some kind of Borstal for offenders would be infinitely fairer for the ones who are already well off the rails, rather than NS for ALL young people.