AIBU?
Mental health issues. Am I being unsympathetic?
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 13:51
I feel afraid to say how I’m feeling ‘’in real life’ so I thought I would put it here.
Essentially, there are three young men in my family (aged 25-32) who have long-standing problems with depression. They are skilled, talented people but they have struggled with keeping jobs, have drifted from their friends, rarely leave the house. They are well supported by their parents.
What I struggle with is that somewhere along the line, this has become ‘normal.’ In the sense that nobody expects it to change, it’s the status quo, it has gone on for years and if you ask any of them about things like hobbies / applying for jobs / plans to leave home / friendships or anything that might help them move on, they get angry and you get attacked for not ‘understanding’.
I’ve never had severe depression so maybe they’re right, I don’t fully understand. And whenever I try, it seems I’m always saying the wrong thing or verging away from what’s expected. The truth is what I see from the ‘outside’ is just… complacency, loss of hope, a whole bunch of adults so frightened of saying the wrong thing that they’ve accepted a ‘new normal’ that couldn’t be further from normal.
We are a very plain-speaking Northern family and I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them / never speaking your mind for fear of what they might do. It’s a strange claustrophobic situation and I don’t know what to do for the best. Am I being unreasonable?
KILM · 02/10/2022 19:11
Yourstory · 02/10/2022 18:04
I can see both sides. I have a lot of empathy for those with mental health issues.
Saying that, I think SOMETIMES the issue is that because they are men with mental health issues that being helpless is enabled. This in the long run makes the situation worse. If they were women who were single primary caregivers the chances are no matter how bad they felt they would have no other choice to get ok with it, and so they would. If not their children would end up in care and the majority of mothers would turn the universe upside down before that happened.
Of course there are other issues such as undiagnosed autism ect. But I think this is a big one.
Agree with this.
Regular people are scared and worried and not trained to deal with depression, so they just want to make life easier for a family member whose struggling. Its so hard to try and seek help when you are depressed, and its an awful disease that can make you appear lazy and selfish and manipulative. But we dont do ANYONE any good by pretending gender doesnt factor in here. By not looking closer at the root of the issue we could be missing ways to help these people, missing another way society lets men and women down through deeply entrenched patriarchy and shit mental health support. Enabling behaviours are a thing. Its a thing with families of addicts. Its a thing with families of binge eaters. Its a thing with diabetics who eat crap and end up affecting their sugars. Its people who arent trained professionals doing their best with what they know for a loved one. And that loved one is coping how they know how. Both parties need support. Proper support and advice. And the general public are not professionals and most people will be hurt if you point out that their son is out 7 nights a week partying but threatens to kill himself if you ask him to enter the dishwasher and them saying 'okay il do it' then nothing else happening to follow that up isnt helping, they will understandably be upset. But its true. Its not helping. But we need proper funding, understanding, education and support which sadly will not happen right now in this country.
Badlydrawnhuman · 02/10/2022 19:12
Even if you could get them to go anywhere, they wouldn't enjoy it. I was like this. I made a huge effort and got myself a part time job. One horrible colleague asked me one day "why on earth did someone like you apply for a job? " so I obviously wasn't coming across as normal. I was good at my job, it was data entry, but I couldn't make chit chat. In the toilets one day, I heard someone say, "is the weirdo in? She's a loner isn't she? Billy no mates". Imagine how that made me feel? It made me worse. You can't just suddenly "act normal".
Overthinker2022 · 02/10/2022 19:12
LadybirdsAreNeverHappy · 02/10/2022 15:46
So what exactly is it you are saying here, do you think the parents are making their sons illnesses worse by supporting them in the wrong way?
Do you know what diagnoses they have and what treatment they have had/ are receiving?
They are all adults, how much do you actually know about their personal lives?
You clearly have no understanding about depression and yet you’re the expert on what they’re capable of and how their parents should handle the situation?
Why is it that you feel you have to go around “challenging” them about their personal situation?
What do you think you can do here? Just keep on at them about how you know better than they do what they should be doing with their lives? What will that accomplish?
YABU. It doesn’t sound like anyone has asked for your help or opinion. The thing to do would be to leave them alone.
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 13:51
I feel afraid to say how I’m feeling ‘’in real life’ so I thought I would put it here.
Essentially, there are three young men in my family (aged 25-32) who have long-standing problems with depression. They are skilled, talented people but they have struggled with keeping jobs, have drifted from their friends, rarely leave the house. They are well supported by their parents.
What I struggle with is that somewhere along the line, this has become ‘normal.’ In the sense that nobody expects it to change, it’s the status quo, it has gone on for years and if you ask any of them about things like hobbies / applying for jobs / plans to leave home / friendships or anything that might help them move on, they get angry and you get attacked for not ‘understanding’.
I’ve never had severe depression so maybe they’re right, I don’t fully understand. And whenever I try, it seems I’m always saying the wrong thing or verging away from what’s expected. The truth is what I see from the ‘outside’ is just… complacency, loss of hope, a whole bunch of adults so frightened of saying the wrong thing that they’ve accepted a ‘new normal’ that couldn’t be further from normal.
We are a very plain-speaking Northern family and I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them / never speaking your mind for fear of what they might do. It’s a strange claustrophobic situation and I don’t know what to do for the best. Am I being unreasonable?
LadybirdsAreNeverHappy you say YABU to OP but I feel YABU with your passive-aggressive questioning and, quite frankly, rude and confrontational tone to your post.
The irony here is that this abrupt and rude tone to take could very well contribute to a human being's declining MH, be it IRL or on the Internet.
LuckySantangelo35 · 02/10/2022 19:34
@LadybirdsAreNeverHappy, a question for you. How would you cope as the ageing parent of three children who spend their days at home in their rooms, playing video games and expecting three meals a day in their 20s and 30s and doing nothing to get help? What about the lives of their parents? Why do you have so little sympathy for the rest of the family?
totally agree with this @LadybirdsAreNeverHappy
its not just the young people’s health and wellness that matters
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 20:19
AmInormallk · 02/10/2022 18:19
Trust me - they do NOT like living like this. This post is giving me chills, tbh
OP you say this - I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them
What you mean by challenging them? That word 'challenging' borders on very dangerous ground and I feel concerned - What exactly are you challenging them about?
When you say they are 'well supported' by their family, - what exactly does this mean?
You sound frustrated with the whole situation - on a daily basis - how does their condition affect your life - are you providing care and support, yourself?
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 13:51
I feel afraid to say how I’m feeling ‘’in real life’ so I thought I would put it here.
Essentially, there are three young men in my family (aged 25-32) who have long-standing problems with depression. They are skilled, talented people but they have struggled with keeping jobs, have drifted from their friends, rarely leave the house. They are well supported by their parents.
What I struggle with is that somewhere along the line, this has become ‘normal.’ In the sense that nobody expects it to change, it’s the status quo, it has gone on for years and if you ask any of them about things like hobbies / applying for jobs / plans to leave home / friendships or anything that might help them move on, they get angry and you get attacked for not ‘understanding’.
I’ve never had severe depression so maybe they’re right, I don’t fully understand. And whenever I try, it seems I’m always saying the wrong thing or verging away from what’s expected. The truth is what I see from the ‘outside’ is just… complacency, loss of hope, a whole bunch of adults so frightened of saying the wrong thing that they’ve accepted a ‘new normal’ that couldn’t be further from normal.
We are a very plain-speaking Northern family and I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them / never speaking your mind for fear of what they might do. It’s a strange claustrophobic situation and I don’t know what to do for the best. Am I being unreasonable?
"Chills"? Nonsense.
They are well-supported in that they have loving parents, who have helped them to get therapy and medication and given them anything that might help them. One parent gave up their job to look after their DS. They have bent over backwards to do the right thing.
If I sound frustrated, perhaps because part of that is because I do hear a lot from the parents about their own situation and the impact on them and am somewhere 'in the middle' of the parents and the sons - a situation where everyone seems tired, stressed, worn out and complaining but can't work up the nerve to say it to each other, so it goes on and on.
ddl1 · 02/10/2022 21:04
While I can't speak for individuals, I think it very unlikely that most people with serious life restrictions caused by illness, mental or physical, think it's 'normal'. Even if they are so isolated that they are not much exposed to their real-life contemporaries, they will usually be exposed to others' lives through TV, the internet and social media, and will realize that others have more varied lives than they do. Being unable to change, or to change as much as others, or even themselves, would think desirable, does not mean that they think that their lives are normal.
AegeanBlue · 02/10/2022 21:23
I can’t quite believe I’m saying this but in this situation I think it might be worth looking at Jordan Peterson. He has strong messaging for young men as to how to get out of depressive holes. Perhaps have a look at some of his videos on YouTube and see whether it might resonate with any of them?
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 21:36
"Chills"? Nonsense.
This response to a PP @PurpleSky300 tells me everything I need to know about how you view other people's mindframes and feelings, you're dismissive. YABU and quite frankly, it's none of your business to be frustrated with these men or challenging anyone. Butt out. You have no understanding and quite obviously, you don't want to have any understanding.
Cameleongirl · 02/10/2022 21:50
Regular people are scared and worried and not trained to deal with depression, so they just want to make life easier for a family member whose struggling.
Yes, @KILM, we have this situation in DH’s family. One person is supported and buoyed up by other family members, but the underlying issues aren’t really addressed, because no one knows what to do. Adults can choose whether to engage with medical services, and if they don’t, their family just don’t know what to do.
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 22:09
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 21:36
"Chills"? Nonsense.
This response to a PP @PurpleSky300 tells me everything I need to know about how you view other people's mindframes and feelings, you're dismissive. YABU and quite frankly, it's none of your business to be frustrated with these men or challenging anyone. Butt out. You have no understanding and quite obviously, you don't want to have any understanding.
Why on earth would my OP have given anybody 'chills', I'm not a serial killer. You call me 'dismissive' and yet you have no problem telling me what is and isn't my business, to butt out etc - when you have no idea of my relationship to these men. Take your own advice, hypocrite.
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 23:02
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 22:09
Why on earth would my OP have given anybody 'chills', I'm not a serial killer. You call me 'dismissive' and yet you have no problem telling me what is and isn't my business, to butt out etc - when you have no idea of my relationship to these men. Take your own advice, hypocrite.
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 21:36
"Chills"? Nonsense.
This response to a PP @PurpleSky300 tells me everything I need to know about how you view other people's mindframes and feelings, you're dismissive. YABU and quite frankly, it's none of your business to be frustrated with these men or challenging anyone. Butt out. You have no understanding and quite obviously, you don't want to have any understanding.
Because you asked - you asked for opinions and I've given an opinion to you, if you don't like it then that's a you-problem.
Why on earth would my OP have given anybody 'chills', I'm not a serial killer.
You can't see why your POV about people with mental illness could be chilling reading for other people with mental illness? Chilling is another person's opinion and their feelings. The fact that your so dismissive of that and even tossing it aside because you're "not a serial killer" demonstrates that you have your measure of things and you're unwilling to see it from anyone else's side.
You call me 'dismissive' and yet you have no problem telling me what is and isn't my business, to butt out etc
Because your language to PPs who disagree is dismissive. Anyone who has disagreed with you here has been met with boxed-cat like reactions when you have asked for opinions. Were you hoping to create a merry band of mental illness bashers or asking for genuine opinions?
when you have no idea of my relationship to these men
Because you haven't furnished anyone with that information because, I suspect, you'd be told to butt out further.
Take your own advice, hypocrite.
I didn't ask for my advice, I didn't ask for your advice - you came to a public forum and asked for opinions. If you didn't get entirely what you were looking for and you don't quite understand why, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the landscape of internet advice forums.
Abcdefgh1234 · 02/10/2022 23:30
You and i in the same condition op. My step sister is teenager with depression and bipolar. I’m so annoyed with her and everything i said its just wrong to her. maybe she is right i never have any depression so i dont understand but i feel sometimes she doesn’t even try.
At one point i just so fed up with her and now i just not talking to here often anymore. I just give up now
pattihews · 02/10/2022 23:39
OP, for a few years when I was young I lived in a flat above a lovely women who turned out to have bi-polar disorder and who had several manic cycles in the three or four years I knew her. She did and said terrible things to me and others when she was manic, including phoning up at night and saying she was at our doors with a knife and was going to break in and kill us. (That was usually the point at which the police intervened and she was sectioned). When she was stable again afterwards she'd apologise profusely and give us flowers and tell us that mental health issues didn't give her the right to behave like a c**t. It's a lesson that some others have still to learn.
There are people on this thread who've experienced poor mental health and understand what you're saying and acknowledge the strain within a family when one person's mental health problems affect everyone around them, including those on the periphery watching the drama unfold. They're the ones to heed.
PurpleSky300 · 03/10/2022 00:01
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 23:02
Because you asked - you asked for opinions and I've given an opinion to you, if you don't like it then that's a you-problem.
Why on earth would my OP have given anybody 'chills', I'm not a serial killer.
You can't see why your POV about people with mental illness could be chilling reading for other people with mental illness? Chilling is another person's opinion and their feelings. The fact that your so dismissive of that and even tossing it aside because you're "not a serial killer" demonstrates that you have your measure of things and you're unwilling to see it from anyone else's side.
You call me 'dismissive' and yet you have no problem telling me what is and isn't my business, to butt out etc
Because your language to PPs who disagree is dismissive. Anyone who has disagreed with you here has been met with boxed-cat like reactions when you have asked for opinions. Were you hoping to create a merry band of mental illness bashers or asking for genuine opinions?
when you have no idea of my relationship to these men
Because you haven't furnished anyone with that information because, I suspect, you'd be told to butt out further.
Take your own advice, hypocrite.
I didn't ask for my advice, I didn't ask for your advice - you came to a public forum and asked for opinions. If you didn't get entirely what you were looking for and you don't quite understand why, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the landscape of internet advice forums.
PurpleSky300 · 02/10/2022 22:09
Why on earth would my OP have given anybody 'chills', I'm not a serial killer. You call me 'dismissive' and yet you have no problem telling me what is and isn't my business, to butt out etc - when you have no idea of my relationship to these men. Take your own advice, hypocrite.
BatshitBanshee · 02/10/2022 21:36
"Chills"? Nonsense.
This response to a PP @PurpleSky300 tells me everything I need to know about how you view other people's mindframes and feelings, you're dismissive. YABU and quite frankly, it's none of your business to be frustrated with these men or challenging anyone. Butt out. You have no understanding and quite obviously, you don't want to have any understanding.
There are posters here who have disagreed with my OP or asked questions in a reasonable way, and I do value their input. Others have immediately 'gone on the attack', made a ton of assumptions and been utterly rude. I wasn't bashing my family, I was looking for advice to help people I love - which for a few people here seems to boil down to "don't bother, butt out and f* off". Fair enough, but it's a strange thing to hear from people who claim to have compassion for others.
LonelyPlanett · 03/10/2022 00:01
I'm in this boat. DD is 23 and has autism and severe mental health issues. She is mostly at home. I've tried honestly everything. She takes medication which does help, but otherwise we fight a daily battle with OCD and anxiety. She wants very much to go out and live her life but somehow can't. Almost every possible local organisation/Adult Mental Health team has tried to help. More referrals are currently going in to various places. I just keep on trying. It's very very worrying.
BBBBMushroom · 03/10/2022 01:43
I have serious MH issues diagnosed and have been in a treatment programme for years now. I actually agree with you about enabling. My DH forced me in to the treatment programme as I didn’t want to go. I would be dead by now or enduring the living death like state I was in still.
Have they been formally diagnosed at any point? Because if they haven’t then there are assumptions being made. There does seem to be a rising number of young people mainly males that just do nothing and their parents are petrified of upsetting them in any way. They can also have a life online. I used to know someone whose son did just what those lads in your family are doing. There was nothing wrong with him he was just lazy but she was so scared of upsetting him because he had threatened her and there was a lot of guilt about various situations.
Do they game a lot by any chance all night and then sleep in the day?
Meili04 · 03/10/2022 01:51
YANBU. I've had very severe depression and my psychiatrist called it endogenous depression. I'm prone to it apparently. I attempted suicide numerous times as a teen and spent time in inpatient facilities. I learnt that nobody really could fix my problems and make me get better. I had to want to do it for myself.
I have a very strict routine. I go to work full time and I work within MH and LD settings. I keep busy if I start feeling low , staying in bed more often stopping attending to personal care then I know I'm slipping and it's time to go back to my strict routine.
I needed tough love at times. I will probably always be on antidepressants but I've not needed any inpatient treatment or cmht treatment for over 10 years. I'm immensely proud of what I've achieved professionals/family can only help you/give you the tools. You have to decide to help yourself.
WalkthisWayUK · 03/10/2022 02:03
I’ve worked in mental health services and there is a place for not ‘enabling’ the status quo with depression. Support and understanding are important. However it can just feed into itself - don’t feel up to going up - feeling rubbish - not up to engaging - don’t care enough… cycling around and becoming a rut on top of the depression, which is itself a bit of a rut. I was often nudging, persuading, encouraging and trying to get the person to have more agency to manage their often very severe mental health. Physical activity of any kind if particularly great.
Very tricky balance though! Depression sucks away motivation and purpose.
But that was me being a profesional, it was my job to help.
In real life, we are not carers on the whole for adults. If we are, we are more likely to suffer from mental or physical illness ourselves. Even small little changes are good, they build over time.
Lessofallthisunpleasantness · 03/10/2022 02:13
God how miserable. I guess just be grateful for the small mercies that it isn't your family. Mental Health has become a bit of a catch all and it does sound as though they might just rot away in that house but as you say what can you do?
I would chit chat like you do normally. Just ask interested questions and move on quickly if they start with too much detailed depression talk and just say that you are not a trained therapist so wouldn't want to say the wrong thing.
user1477391263 · 03/10/2022 05:22
Difficult situation. It's not going to be easy for their MH to improve unless they are willing to take steps on stuff like getting out the house, joining clubs and groups, taking up a creative hobby, getting plenty of exercise and fresh air, getting a job of some kind (even if it's not perfect or highly paid, just something that gives structure to the week). I get that poor MH can cause people to get stuck in a rut, but the parents should be doing their best to motivate them to do things to help themselves.
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