Mental health issues. Am I being unsympathetic?

[PurpleSky300]

I feel afraid to say how I’m feeling ‘’in real life’ so I thought I would put it here.
Essentially, there are three young men in my family (aged 25-32) who have long-standing problems with depression. They are skilled, talented people but they have struggled with keeping jobs, have drifted from their friends, rarely leave the house. They are well supported by their parents.

What I struggle with is that somewhere along the line, this has become ‘normal.’ In the sense that nobody expects it to change, it’s the status quo, it has gone on for years and if you ask any of them about things like hobbies / applying for jobs / plans to leave home / friendships or anything that might help them move on, they get angry and you get attacked for not ‘understanding’.

I’ve never had severe depression so maybe they’re right, I don’t fully understand. And whenever I try, it seems I’m always saying the wrong thing or verging away from what’s expected. The truth is what I see from the ‘outside’ is just… complacency, loss of hope, a whole bunch of adults so frightened of saying the wrong thing that they’ve accepted a ‘new normal’ that couldn’t be further from normal.

We are a very plain-speaking Northern family and I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them / never speaking your mind for fear of what they might do. It’s a strange claustrophobic situation and I don’t know what to do for the best. Am I being unreasonable?

[Avidreader69]

Depression is really awful. Because of the illness, you literally can't see a way out of it, and nothing anyone says makes any difference.
I would find out if they are on antidepressants, and other than that, just talk to them about day to day activities rather than trying to get them to go out and socialisé. They may not be able to.

[PurpleSky300]

@Supersimkin2

Is it any of your business?

When you’re depressed, it can feel very intrusive to have ‘well-meaning’ outsiders asking questions and making suggestions that they wouldn’t dare make to anyone else.

if you secretly harbour doubts as to how ill
these DS are, meds and therapy are the litmus test. How much and whether they take them. Also, ability to do things they want (attend festival) v inability for things they don’t (wash up).

As much as it is the business of anyone who cares about them and (was?) close to them, surely? I don't doubt that they are ill.

[FamilyTreeBuilder]

@LocusFlower

Long term Adult depression is often actually being undiagnosed neurodivergent. It’s not something people can snap out of or change by going out more. It’s much more complex than that. I’m glad these young men have support in their immediate families.

But the situation OP describes, and which we have in our family, there is no "support". Support would be first admitting that there's a problem, and then proactively looking for ways to make things better.

Brushing everything under the carpet and pretending its normal that a 25 year old never leaves the house is not being supportive.

[rosael56]

The thing is, after years of mental health issues, it does become 'normal'. Mental illnesses often can't be cured, even with all the available treatments. You just live with it, and do the best you can, and if that means not having a job or hobbies etc then that's that. It would be the same if your relatives had long term physical illnesses. You wouldn't keep asking them about getting a job etc if they were physically incapable would you?

Believe me that people with severe mental illnesses want to get better. Having people ask about things they wish they could do is not helpful.

Are they willing to talk about their depression at all? I'm happy to talk about my mental illness, but when I do I want people to be understanding and accept that I'm doing everything I can and nobody's suggestions (except my therapist's/GP's) are things I haven't already thought about and agonised over myself.

Now if these relatives are not seeking medical help then YANBU, but if they are doing all they can, then what else do you expect from them?

[Suetwo]

I know a young man similar to those described above. I wonder if it is more common these days? I mean to end up like that. People talk about life being tougher years ago. Now that is true in some ways (outside loos, no central heating, hard manual labour, etc), but in other ways life was better. Indeed, for sensitive, anxious people, modern life can be hellish. For a start, the world is overcrowded. It’s also noisier and more hectic. The roads are a nightmare, and people seem less patient, more aggressive and nasty (inevitable when you cram too many people together). We have 24 hour bad news, and work, while it’s less physically demanding, is generally more stressful. The anxious and sensitive get overwhelmed and withdraw. It’s like their mind/nervous system shuts down. I’ve seen it.

It seems to be a modern phenomenon. I can think of several people who rarely leave their house or flat except for work. To be honest, I don’t go out much myself. I don’t see the point. The traffic is awful, you can never get parked, and everywhere is just so crowded and noisy and aggressive. If Britain was quieter, less stressful and less crowded, I would spend more time in nature, visit old towns, etc. And I’m sure the young men the OP described wouldn’t be in the state they are in. Yes, they may still be prone to depression, but modern life exacerbates everything. And with the world heading for 10 billion people, plus AI destroying jobs and climate change about to unleash havoc, don’t expect things to get any better.

[PurpleSky300]

@georgarina

Other people judging/pressuring them isn't going to help.

And that's not what I'm trying to do, or how I want to come across.

At the same time - pretending that it's fine to spend your 20s alone in your room, not being helped to work towards any kind of independent life, having no goals - that's not going to help either. Like I said, it's a new normal that's not normal.

[RedHelenB]

@tickticksnooze

Did they ask for your interference?

Interference or offering help? If these men weren't facilitated what would happen? Why encourage them to waste their lives like this? I think the OP has a point.

[georgarina]

@FamilyTreeBuilder

And neither is everyone kidding on that everything is just peachy.

Where did I say that...

If you feel shit and worthless and someone reminds you of all the ways you're shit and worthless, or 'helpfully' reminds you of all the things you should be doing, it only makes it worse.

There are other ways you can help and support someone. If OP doesn't want to or feels that these family members aren't receptive, she doesn't have to.

But one thing that categorically won't help is making a depressed person feel worse about themselves.

[WonderingMum2]

I understand where you are coming from. A friend has that situation in the family and if things won’t change she could be looking at caring for her similar aged relative herself in years to come. Yet feels she can’t ask ‘are you seeking help’ as that would be seen as unsupportive.

[strawberrysea]

YANBU and I say that as someone who comes from a family where almost everyone has MH issues and I have had very extreme depression and suicidal tendencies in the past.

MH issues are obviously very complex, however it does absolutely no good to foster the cycle of - depression, isolation, helplessness and despair - by ignoring the issue and allowing the depressed person to do nothing about their situation. It may also be the case that these young men have become comfortable in their situation and have the depression excuse to fall back on. I'm not judging them, I've been there myself.

Getting medicated and their immediate family helping them to formulate some sort of plan would help.

[jimmyjammy001]

Asking them about when they are going to move out is a very personal question and perhaps they want to leave home but can't because of cost of living crisis and renting being sky high, also being in between jobs dosent help either, it will come across as you are questioning them and their life choices and critisisng them. How about talking about general stuff in life and not about them? They are obviously not happy in the situation that they are in and nobody really wants to talk about negative stuff in life.

[PurpleSky300]

@strawberrysea

YANBU and I say that as someone who comes from a family where almost everyone has MH issues and I have had very extreme depression and suicidal tendencies in the past.

MH issues are obviously very complex, however it does absolutely no good to foster the cycle of - depression, isolation, helplessness and despair - by ignoring the issue and allowing the depressed person to do nothing about their situation. It may also be the case that these young men have become comfortable in their situation and have the depression excuse to fall back on. I'm not judging them, I've been there myself.

Getting medicated and their immediate family helping them to formulate some sort of plan would help.

Thank you for this.
I guess it is very hard to find the line - you don't want to be enabling / pretending there's no problem and you don't want to be judgemental or pressuring either. it is not an easy place to be in.

[ddl1]

@FamilyTreeBuilder

But the situation OP describes, and which we have in our family, there is no "support". Support would be first admitting that there's a problem, and then proactively looking for ways to make things better.

Brushing everything under the carpet and pretending its normal that a 25 year old never leaves the house is not being supportive.

Is it really 'pretending it's normal', or just accepting that the illness/ disability exists and needs to be accommodated because it is not currently curable? Just as if someone is blind or has limited mobility few will regard it as totally 'normal', but they will accept that trying to force them to give up the use of wheelchairs, guide dogs, or other adaptations will not result in a miracle cure.

And there is usually more that can be done to facilitate 'normal' practical and social functioning in a person with a visual or mobility impairment, than one currently suffering from severe depression. They aren't suffering from depression because they aren't leaving the house (well, many people did in lockdown, but that's a different issue). They aren't leaving the house, because they have depression. The symptoms, however debilitating, should not be regarded as the causes; and accommodating one's own or someone else's illness should not be treated it as enabling it.

Obviously, what I have said only applies to people who have attempted to get treatment.

[maddiemookins16mum]

YANBU - but you can’t discuss MH issues on here with any sort of negativity involved.

[Redqueenheart]

Let's put it this way:

If someone you knew had a physical disability or a long term health condition like multiple sclerosis, severe arthritis, blindness and so on that was limiting some of the things they can do in life would you expect them to just magically change because you think they should be out and about and you expect them to be fit for work?

You wouldn't.

So why do you expect people with mental health conditions to be treated in a different way?

In some instances people have only temporary issues with depressions in others the condition will be with them for life on and off.

Some people have severe mental illness and even with medication they might struggle to function.

For example people who are bipolar might do all they can to control their condition with medication but it is still the type of illness that can cause problems even if you do everything right.

I think we really need to move form that awful thinking that only people with physical health issues deserve support and are genuinely struggling while the ones with mental health issues are either faking it or not trying hard enough...

[PurpleSky300]

@Redqueenheart

Let's put it this way:

If someone you knew had a physical disability or a long term health condition like multiple sclerosis, severe arthritis, blindness and so on that was limiting some of the things they can do in life would you expect them to just magically change because you think they should be out and about and you expect them to be fit for work?

You wouldn't.

So why do you expect people with mental health conditions to be treated in a different way?

In some instances people have only temporary issues with depressions in others the condition will be with them for life on and off.

Some people have severe mental illness and even with medication they might struggle to function.

For example people who are bipolar might do all they can to control their condition with medication but it is still the type of illness that can cause problems even if you do everything right.

I think we really need to move form that awful thinking that only people with physical health issues deserve support and are genuinely struggling while the ones with mental health issues are either faking it or not trying hard enough...

I'm not expecting anyone to magically change but I don't think it makes sense to give up all hope of anything and accept this is lifelong, it will never improve so there's no point trying, etc. They are young men who have their whole lives ahead - how can it be more reasonable to think 'well this is just how things are' than to try and help them?

[Abaiia]

I was like this when I was in my teens and early 20s. I knew that I needed help but i was too frightened to seek it / part of me didnt even want to try. Unfortunately it took a traumatic event for me to finally seek therapy and medication. I am now 50, have a job, a house, a partner and a child. I'd still rather be at home. I do go out socially and to work but in all honesty when I retire I will stay at home and read and cook all day.

[LadybirdsAreNeverHappy]

@PurpleSky300

I feel afraid to say how I’m feeling ‘’in real life’ so I thought I would put it here.
Essentially, there are three young men in my family (aged 25-32) who have long-standing problems with depression. They are skilled, talented people but they have struggled with keeping jobs, have drifted from their friends, rarely leave the house. They are well supported by their parents.

What I struggle with is that somewhere along the line, this has become ‘normal.’ In the sense that nobody expects it to change, it’s the status quo, it has gone on for years and if you ask any of them about things like hobbies / applying for jobs / plans to leave home / friendships or anything that might help them move on, they get angry and you get attacked for not ‘understanding’.

I’ve never had severe depression so maybe they’re right, I don’t fully understand. And whenever I try, it seems I’m always saying the wrong thing or verging away from what’s expected. The truth is what I see from the ‘outside’ is just… complacency, loss of hope, a whole bunch of adults so frightened of saying the wrong thing that they’ve accepted a ‘new normal’ that couldn’t be further from normal.

We are a very plain-speaking Northern family and I don’t understand how supporting someone with MH issues came to mean – tiptoeing around them / never challenging them / never speaking your mind for fear of what they might do. It’s a strange claustrophobic situation and I don’t know what to do for the best. Am I being unreasonable?

So what exactly is it you are saying here, do you think the parents are making their sons illnesses worse by supporting them in the wrong way?
Do you know what diagnoses they have and what treatment they have had/ are receiving?
They are all adults, how much do you actually know about their personal lives?
You clearly have no understanding about depression and yet you’re the expert on what they’re capable of and how their parents should handle the situation?
Why is it that you feel you have to go around “challenging” them about their personal situation?
What do you think you can do here? Just keep on at them about how you know better than they do what they should be doing with their lives? What will that accomplish?
YABU. It doesn’t sound like anyone has asked for your help or opinion. The thing to do would be to leave them alone.

[BruceHellerAlmighty]

@Redqueenheart

Let's put it this way:

If someone you knew had a physical disability or a long term health condition like multiple sclerosis, severe arthritis, blindness and so on that was limiting some of the things they can do in life would you expect them to just magically change because you think they should be out and about and you expect them to be fit for work?

You wouldn't.

So why do you expect people with mental health conditions to be treated in a different way?

In some instances people have only temporary issues with depressions in others the condition will be with them for life on and off.

Some people have severe mental illness and even with medication they might struggle to function.

For example people who are bipolar might do all they can to control their condition with medication but it is still the type of illness that can cause problems even if you do everything right.

I think we really need to move form that awful thinking that only people with physical health issues deserve support and are genuinely struggling while the ones with mental health issues are either faking it or not trying hard enough...

It's not thinking that only physical illnesses deserve support though. It's recognising that what we call "mental illness" isn't an illness in that it isn't pathologically observable. It's a collection of mental processes that are problematic and often distressing for the people who apprehend those mental processes but it doesn't physically prevent people from carrying out day to day activities. It might feel like it, sometimes very strongly, but it doesn't.

That's not to say that people who experience mental distress are malingerers or just need to pull themselves together or whatever. But it does mean that it's not helpful to draw blanket comparisons with allowances and accommodations it's appropriate to make for people with physical health conditions. Especially when as is the case with these young men the OP knows the allowances seem to be along the lines of not fostering personal expectations and goals that lead to a fulfilling life.

[pattihews]

LadybirdsAreNeverHappy, a question for you. How would you cope as the ageing parent of three children who spend their days at home in their rooms, playing video games and expecting three meals a day in their 20s and 30s and doing nothing to get help? What about the lives of their parents? Why do you have so little sympathy for the rest of the family?

Some of us here are looking at both sides of the coin but it's really clear that many of those with a history of MH problems can only see one.

[BruceHellerAlmighty]

The thing to do would be to leave them alone.

They are being left alone though. That's the problem.

[FamilyTreeBuilder]

When it's a family member, yes you do know what is going on. Because you speak to your sister, aunt, cousins whatever and they tell you! I certainly know that the 25 year old in our family is having no treatment, has never had treatment. No diagnosis either as has never been to the GP. He refuses to go, his parents can't make him.

Yes some people with depression will never get better. But lots will. Lots will find that antidepressants or CBT help, or that volunteering helps, or they get a sense of purpose from going to college or whatever.

What I object to, and what OP does too from the sound of it, is the fatalistic writing-off of young men in their teens and 20s as "ill", permanently, with no prospects of ever getting better.

[Charlize43]

I was diagnosed with depression and couple of years ago and sent to do CBT therapy. One thing I was taught was the fastest way out of depression is through activity.

www.psychologytools.com/self-help/behavioral-activation/

I found it useful but I know with mental health it isn't a question of one size fits all.

[pattihews]

Is there a point where leaving people alone is neglect?

[Mischance]

I appreciate your desire to help them, but how you go about it is critically important. Listening is a good starting point. They do not want to hear what they should be doing.