Inferring neighbour barging into 99yr old home…

[Twentyyearsapart]

My gran (99) is bedridden and lives on her own in a flat in a 55+ residential block with the help of carers (x4 a day). They did away with the warden a few years ago but a couple of residents volunteered to manage the block - letting in builders, carers etc. One of the volunteers (M) is in my opinion interfering and overstepping the mark. He’s been a neighbour for 12 years and more of an associate than good friend to my gran but recently he wanders into my nan’s place randomly to ‘check on her’ (uninvited as her door is left open for the carers).

However last week he took it upon himself without asking or being asked to move all her furniture (emptying cupboards and moving them and contents) from her lounge into her bedroom as we had arranged for a new bed to be delivered and placed in her lounge. My mum had only asked him to let in the delivery guys if they turned and we weren’t there and I had cleared my diary to spend the day Friday moving everything and get her room cosy for her in preparation. I don’t think it’s appropriate for someone to enter an elderly persons home and go through their things without their or their family’s consent especially when the elderly person is in a nightdress in bed. Also we don’t know what was on her cupboards so don’t know if everything is still there.

The neighbour also saw that I was at my gran’s on Friday as he was in the lobby when I arrived but came up later to see what we were doing at hers and then started to tell me what to do and where to move things!!! I was livid but for gran’s sake bit my tongue. I think he’s overstepping the mark but my mum disagrees.

Am I being unreasonable?

the door shouldnt be left open, that is an invitation for disaster
If its an over 55 complex is there a managenent company
The carers should put in a safeguarding concern if the door is open and anyone could walk in, innocent or ir not and put her at risk and others
at risk of accusations
She needs another capacity assessment if she is becoming confused
Nok is not the same as poa, you have every right to raise your concern and install a keysafe

True- but private residential care costs thousands a week. Council residential care is means assessed and gatekept by social services, who decide if you get a funded place or not. There are not enough council spaces for everyone and some of the council homes are dire.

OPs gran could sell her flat and pay for a private care home- but at between £2k and £3k a WEEK the money will soon run out. And then she will have to move if OP and her family don't have that amount of money ( which I'm guessing they don't, or they would already be paying for 24hr care) which will cause distress and upheaval.

The situation isn't ideal, but it doesn't mean OP isn't doing her best.

Changechangychange add in the loss of capacity and it goes over the threshold so better care has to be provided. It’s not just about leaving the bed it’s also about other needs. I agree the system can take a lot of motivating before it works and people are left for too long with unmet needs. With a committed family it doesn’t have to be this way.

This!!!

Unless you've worked with people in this situation, you really have no idea of the reality.

she is 99
perhaps she likes his company

They don't, won't and can't fund everyone though.

They may have judged that OPs gran can self fund.

They may have judged that the 4x calls a day are appropriate.

They may just not have any funded or partially funded places.

OPs gran may have refused.

It doesn't work the same for everyone. Some people really need to reign in their judgmental responses to the OP.

You could contact the care agenc6to let them know not to discuss her care with him. They may be under the impression he is a relative.

To the poster asking how op knows the carers have been- the Nan will have a care plan in her flat and carers check in and out each visit using a mobile tag. If no one had checked in the office would call the carers to see why visit wasn't complete.

This. Poor gran, can no one take her in? Your mum or you?

He is also opening himself up to accusations unless he has specific permission from your gran and/ or next of kin that he is allowed in to the property on these terms.
I have no idea of his moral character so will not comment on that side.
My own DM is nearing being less able so I can understand your concerns op and I know that they come from a place of love for your Gran.

His next of kin (Ops mum) hasn't got a problem with it.

I used to be a District nurse, and I would advise anyone in your situation to get a camera installed to monitor interactions between your nan and any visitors.

Unless the old lady has been officially deemed to lack capacity, she can’t be made to move to a care home unless she wants to. And very few people do ever want to leave their own homes.

Some posters don’t seem aware of the practical realities in such cases, which are not at all uncommon.

I do agree that a key safe should be a priority.

I’ve been involved in care needs assessments - our ward nurses have to complete a diary detailing the number of times the patient tries to get out of the bed overnight, how often they poo overnight, how often their blood sugars go hypo overnight. The patients in question all had zero capacity. Most were deemed fine to be left overnight by Lambeth SS over the past year (we had to appeal several times in one case as we felt it was completely unsafe to discharge to home).

It may of course vary by area, but having no capacity is not a blanket reason for 24hr care in many LAs.

Although of course, gran needs to give permission for cameras to be installed in her property, unless she doesn't have capacity.

RE capacity- it's not as simple as "you don't have capacity, into a home you go"

As PP said, patients are assessed individually and many patients with no capacity are deemed safe at home, especially when bed bound as they are not going to wander.

Also, even a person lacking capacity can refuse or agree to treatment/going into a home etc. There are loads of rules about what can and can't be done against a persons will. In a case of refusal, It's usually about finding a least restrictive option- which in this case is care calls at home.

Forcing someone to into a care home, to have cameras up, to be locked in etc strays into DoLs (deprivation of liberty) territory, which comes with its own set of rules.

Again, all this judgement of the OP. She is asking what to do about the neighbour, not for people to poke holes in he gran's living and care arrangements.

My partner works for a care company and some people have literally 15 minute visits from them a few times a day. Are they with her for awhile? Or just a quick visit? It doesn't sound safe.

where she lives is not the point op was making, it is to do with the neighbour coming in and seeing her nan of 99.

Shocked at the lack of knowledge posters on this thread have about this type of situation

Its absolutely usual for this type of care package to be set up and its nothing to do with the care company whether the client (grandmother) wants her door left open or not.

Social Services may assess her as having her needs met, so wouldnt be funding her to move into a care home (which they dont have) even if she couldnt afford it

If she can afford it then she needs to think about whether she wants to go or not and as others have pointed out she might not want to, even if she doesnt have capacity (and capacity fluctuates and you can have capacity in one dimension but perhaps not another), its not an automatic move against her wishes. Part of the responsibility of making decisions for someone without capacity is the part where you need to make those decisions in a way in which the person would have made them for themselves if they could. Moving someone of that age could kill them and personally I would rather be in my own property and surroundings given most circumstances.

There is also a responsibility to make sure she has the best care when making the decisions for her. I don't think 4 short visits a day for someone bed bound is the best care, not unless the family are also spending a lot of time caring for her too.

It really seems like you are willfully ignoring every comment explaining how the care system works.

She will have been assessed. By a real person. Not a stranger on the Internet who is inferring an awful lot from about 4 posts that aren't even focusing on the lady's living situation!

I know how the care system works.

I've spent the last 5 years dealing with Adult social services.

I'm assuming she's in the same position as my MIL was when she was paralysed and was having carers in 4 times a day;MIL had a catheter that was connected to a urine collection bag and was in adult nappies for the her other toileting needs.

But do you know how to assess an adult with social care needs?