Would you support a junior doctor strike?

[NC3435]

NC for this. To be clear, during the last strike, non training grade doctors were in hospitals etc as were consultants. Emergency work continued and A+E was functioning. The background to the dispute is that JDs want pay restoration to the levels in 2008/09 and the BMA has been attempting to engage with the government for a while without any acknowledgement. There is a staffing and retention crisis with more and more doctors leaving the country every year. Those of us still around are pretty burnt out from the last 2 years and things are getting worse - this includes patient care.

Yes

Fuck no

They work ridiculous hours. Decent pay is only fair.

Pay peanuts you get monkeys and I want people I can trust when I'm ill and vulnerable.

I’m fed up of these public sector workers continuously calling for strikes, holding the government to ransom and causing the public chaos throughout.

They have bloody good guaranteed pensions, (I had mine stolen working in the private sector) union support, good annual leave, paid sick leave etc.

if I’ve been dissatisfied with a job choice I’ve moved on to another.

I have no patience for them, let them work in the private sector, we’re all struggling and suffering to different degrees. Everyone’s salaries have decreased in real terms, but they have to suck it up and try to deal with it the best they can.

Well an increase in salary won't improve that

Trouble is, we have a bit of an issue with doctors, nurses, teachers etc, moving on. We want to keep them. We need to keep them. Do you like having doctors, nurses, qualified teachers for your kids? I do.

Maybe the pay and conditions are insufficient to keep them, particularly in a global market.

I mean, they can go elsewhere, very easily. That leaves us with less doctors, nurses, teachers etc. What do we do then?

@fissty
FY 1/2 years might be called training but in reality it’s service provision. Massive responsibility from day 1 in terms of decision making, holding the bleep for several medical wards etc, knowing when to escalate and then trying to get a response from seniors, getting bullied by bed managers and some nurses. Getting paid £29k is a disgrace for an F1. My DD is living it.
Totally support the strike.

Please support them they work their nuts off and work shitty hours for terrible money. There is a huge shortage of junior doctors in my specialist field, we mustn't drive anymore away.

But nobody ever mentioned the grad scheme, you said “working in aldi” - I think it’s a given you (and everyone else using the Aldi argument) are implying they would earn more money stacking shelves

No I don’t think that’s a given… someone said working at Aldi. And yes Aldi pay more. I think you only have a problem now that your argument has fallen flat.

for some reason you seem to have a vendetta against paying nhs staff properly for their skills. I sincerely hope you don’t need their services

With the greatest respect, you have only your daughters experience to go by. It is not like that in many hospitals.

There is a lot of hyperbole within these discussions.

Many of these doctors are very young, this is the first real workplace they’ve been in (despite the earlier poster the vast majority have not worked before, either come from money, they’re nepo babies, or they’ve been supported by the proud family all through uni).

Our ward rounds start at 8am. I cannot tell you how many doctors turn up late because “it’s really early” “I had to go to costa” “I didn’t set my alarm” “I’m tired”

Definitely support it

If someone says “I’d earn more working in aldi” you think most people would take that to mean “I’d earn more if I got a place on the Aldi grad scheme”. Don’t be obtuse, of course they want people to mean on the bloody checkout

With all due respect, if employees are not turning up on time, that is a performance issue with the individual, and should be dealt with as such.

It has nothing to do with the pay and conditions of the profession at large.

How old do you mean by “very young”

I don’t believe you work with them because that is entirely inaccurate

my sister was recently in hospital. The junior doctor was on the ward at 7am prepping her notes for ward round and she wasn’t being paid until 8am….

I absolutely would. The way I see it is, as someone who didn't spend years of my life in university, and doesn't have the workload, stress or student finance to pay back, I should not be out earning Dr's.

I saw on tiktok there was a Dr who shared he was paid £325and some pence for an overnight shift, which included seeing about 18 patients, giving CPR, administering a spinal block and much more.

My out of hours shifts are payable at £450. Nowhere near the stress of a Dr. I've never saved anyones life.

A GP should be paid significantly more than I am.

Doesn't 'junior doctor' pretty much cover anyone who is not a consultant?

@Fiona7656
Trainee provide important service provision in exchange NHS provide important training opportunities (which also benefits NHS in the longer term). This can mean coming in early and leaving late, eg prepping patients for surgery and looking out for life threatening complications post surgery.

If we didn’t have “trainees”- the waiting lists would rocket. A&Es would be clogged - it would be complete havoc.

I read about a royal college dean being worried about doctor training structures as so many trainees are saying they want to emigrate / locum/ change profession.

I fully support them to strike.

Consultants will be next now.

What is your job? @fissty - HR? Payroll? Finance?
Obviously not a junior doctor.
My daughter’s peers from Uni are working all over the country and having the same experience.
Insulting to imply they turn up late. It would not be tolerated. They are working their socks off.

shortkiwi - not all but a significant number do turn up late, call in sick when due to work a weekend.
Calling them out onbeing late is considered by those that do to be harssment. If you had time to get your costa and arrive 10 mins late, then you do not have your priorities right and ye you could have been on time without the coffee. Sorry had a gutfull this week of people swanning in late tos tart clinic, ward rounds etc whilst holding their coffee and croissant

100% support here. And for the consultants too - they won't be far behind.

I absolutely believe fissty works in the NHS. Her attitude is something I see a lot, mostly by people who are peri-clinical and don’t have any actual idea of what our role involves day to day. Or people who like to call F1s “baby doctors” and patronise them or undermine their decisions.

You seem to have a lot of antipathy towards junior doctors @fissty that I’m sure those who work with you pick up on and it’s probably become quite toxic. Curious to know your role.

But interested to hear that the working hours monitoring is taken seriously where you work, as in my time these diary card exercises were a complete joke. Most juniors still stay before and beyond their contracted hours these days in my experience.

Agreed @OnOldOlympus . Often these people are worth their weight in gold as they know all the systems and how things work and are a huge support to junior colleagues in different professions who constantly have to rotate into new roles.

But sometimes you get the other sort.