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AIBU?

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Original poster

Would you support a junior doctor strike?

275 replies

NC3435 · 01/10/2022 21:44

NC for this. To be clear, during the last strike, non training grade doctors were in hospitals etc as were consultants. Emergency work continued and A+E was functioning. The background to the dispute is that JDs want pay restoration to the levels in 2008/09 and the BMA has been attempting to engage with the government for a while without any acknowledgement. There is a staffing and retention crisis with more and more doctors leaving the country every year. Those of us still around are pretty burnt out from the last 2 years and things are getting worse - this includes patient care.

OP posts:
Supersimkin2 · 01/10/2022 23:51

A journal of one
junior doctor’s working day would help. A record of one day, not a made-up effort.

Overwork is impossible to quantify and means anything from ‘pay me more’ or ‘I only got 55 minutes for lunch’ to ‘I did 12 hours’ unpaid cos no one else was in’.

We need comparators with the other jobs that pay the same.

Trouble is, a lot of jobs are bloody hard work. With no hayuge public pension, mat leave and opportunities to have the lucrative side hustle as a private doc.

FixTheBone · 02/10/2022 07:00

The NHS was pretty decent when I applied to medical school in 1999. Labour's investment andpolicy changes were starting to kick in, by 2010 it was back near the top of the pile, the waiting time for a hip replacement was days or weeks in some places - my record was referral received on Monday, patient seen on Thursday, hip replacement the following Friday..

Then the Tories ran it into the ground, the cracks were being papered over in 2019/20 until the stress of s pandemic and brexit exposed them
.

Leakingroofagain · 02/10/2022 07:13

Yes but I don't think I'd notice unless the junior doctors in question are the ones (wo)manning the econsult system that says "we will respond within 48 hours" and then never issuing a response.

TooBored1 · 02/10/2022 07:20

Absolutely

WinterCarlisle · 02/10/2022 07:24

100a% I’ll support them. And the nurses if they strike too.

Literally had enough of this bullshit

NationMcKinley · 02/10/2022 07:27

What @FixTheBone says. I’m a specialist nurse who qualified in the 90s. There’s no comparison between then and now. The pandemic really exposed the massive cracks.

Prinnny · 02/10/2022 07:31

I worked the last doctors strike and can’t really remember it so I don’t think it caused much disruption.

Junior doctors seem to have much better working conditions than when I first started in the NHS 12yr ago but I recognise the pay still isn’t on par with the responsibility they take on.

Mouthfulofquiz · 02/10/2022 07:33

I do support junior doctors but I hope that when representatives are interviewed this time they don’t just bang on about how they could easily do anyone and everyone else’s job if they weren’t a doctor. (Well that’s how it came across to me). That I did find a bit insulting, and it made me think ‘leave then and go and do those jobs then if you’re so marvellous’
what I wanted to feel was ‘I support you to fight for fair pay and conditions so you can be the best doctors you can be’.
Sorry for the ramble!

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 02/10/2022 07:34

Yes.

The problem is that a 24 hour strike or whatever they did last time has limited impact.

My DH was in a HDU during the 2016 strike and for that day the consultants, specialist nurses etc. stepped in to ensure the patients were safe and to support their junior Dr colleagues (they and we were wearing stickers from the picket line). This masked the impact somewhat. Presumably minimal paperwork and training happened and all meetings were cancelled and all of that just had to be squeezed in in the next few days.

But the absence of total system collapse just feeds into the narrative that the NHS must be lazy, underworked and drinks too much tea. I have no idea what the answer is.

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 02/10/2022 08:03

I would support them, cancelled appointments and delayed operations will make people consider their voting intentions at the next election, there can still be some support for emergencies, ICU etc.

It is not just junior doctors, final year medical students have a big funding gap too because the NHS bursary doesn't cover as much as the student loan would. It would be good to see more investment but also more in the way of golden hellos, larger bursaries in return for a five year committment to the NHS much like the armed forces. Yes they could get better paid jobs in other professions but then who would become doctors?

luckylavender · 02/10/2022 08:25

NC3435 · 01/10/2022 21:44

NC for this. To be clear, during the last strike, non training grade doctors were in hospitals etc as were consultants. Emergency work continued and A+E was functioning. The background to the dispute is that JDs want pay restoration to the levels in 2008/09 and the BMA has been attempting to engage with the government for a while without any acknowledgement. There is a staffing and retention crisis with more and more doctors leaving the country every year. Those of us still around are pretty burnt out from the last 2 years and things are getting worse - this includes patient care.

I would fully support a junior doctor's strike.

Battlecat98 · 02/10/2022 08:35

DenholmElliot1 · 01/10/2022 22:35

No I wouldn't.

Don't enter a profession if you don't like the salary it pays.

Such a lazy response. You clearly have no idea how things have changed. The NHS work conditions are awful, this directly impacts patient care, it is very unsafe for patients and damaging to staff physical and mental health.

As a nurse I will possibly be striking,
I will support the JD if they decide to strike. I had a JD in tears the other day because it was 7pm, she was dealing with 2 sick patients on the ward who really needed ITU and she had not had a break all day, she said she had no senior support and she had no idea that this is how it was. I agree with her it's the worse it's been and the conditions are awful.

LoopyGremlin · 02/10/2022 08:38

Junior doctors have terrible pay and working conditions, so yes, I would absolutely support them. We are all screwed unless things improve as all our talented doctors will leave for elsewhere where their skills and training are appreciated.

Original poster
NC3435 · 02/10/2022 08:40

Thank you all for your responses! I worked during the last strike as well as it fell on an on call shift and I was in a very busy hospital. To those who pointed out that the disruption was minimal, we are still doctors and have a duty of care to our patients. I doubt you will find a good doctor who would say to hell with patients! The BMA did ask us how far we would be willing to go but we cannot just out right refuse to treat patients. At the end of the day, (most) people come to hospital because they need help and it would be completely unethical to turn them away or refuse to help.

OP posts:
Titsflyingsouth · 02/10/2022 09:35

Junior doctors have appalling pay and conditions. Totally support them.

DamnUserName21 · 02/10/2022 10:25

Absolutely support this and any other strikes by healthcare staff. The working hours, unsafe conditions, lack of staffing and pay have to be addressed.

BitOutOfPractice · 02/10/2022 10:27

Yes I would 100%

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/10/2022 10:29

I really wish they didn't have to strike, but I absolutely support their right to strike off that's what they feel they have to do.

We treat our medical professionals dreadfully in this country. It's a wonder that we have any left at all.

Dappy1212 · 25/11/2022 21:12

Most doctors start preparing to be doctors age 15. They are definitely blissfully unaware. Unfortunately they could not predict that in 20 years from their preparation the NHS would be in such a state and salaries would be cut by huge chunks.

Dappy1212 · 25/11/2022 21:13

Lunar270 · 01/10/2022 23:39

But it's not like anyone looking to be a doctor is blissfully unaware that the NHS is bad; varying pay or not. People have choices. If they choose a career in the NHS then there's not much point moaning about it.

And I'd argue that prestige is unimportant too. Anyone looking for prestige probably isn't right for the job

Show quote history

Most doctors start preparing to be doctors age 15. They are definitely blissfully unaware. Unfortunately they could not predict that in 20 years from their preparation the NHS would be in such a state and salaries would be cut by huge chunks.

Changechangychange · 25/11/2022 21:27

DenholmElliot1 · 01/10/2022 22:35

No I wouldn't.

Don't enter a profession if you don't like the salary it pays.

I liked the salary it paid in 1997, junior doctors are striking to get back to that, adjusted for inflation. So presumably you are all in favour on those grounds?

Lingles · 25/11/2022 21:31

No for the reasons below.

Mouthfulofquiz · 02/10/2022 07:33
I do support junior doctors but I hope that when representatives are interviewed this time they don’t just bang on about how they could easily do anyone and everyone else’s job if they weren’t a doctor. (Well that’s how it came across to me). That I did find a bit insulting, and it made me think ‘leave then and go and do those jobs then if you’re so marvellous’

what I wanted to feel was ‘I support you to fight for fair pay and conditions so you can be the best doctors you can be’.
Sorry for the ramble!

Lingles · 25/11/2022 21:36

I also think the last strike was tone deaf.

I remember sitting in a waiting room watching a video about doctors having to retire early in their 50s. That’s the definition of tone deaf.

however I don’t think it is legal to strike for what is really needed (more staff, more support). So it’s a conundrum.

Charlieiscool · 25/11/2022 21:42

Junior doctors are not yet fully qualified - they are basically in training positions so they should not strike for more money. When they reach seniority they earn very good money but still work bloody hard throughout their careers.

Sallyh87 · 25/11/2022 21:47

Yes, I would. Surely, our doctors should be our best and brightest and they aren’t paid accordingly. Many years ago, when I graduated Uni, I started work on a graduate programme in a major UK bank. I earned at that point more than my friends who started as junior doctors. That really can’t be right,what they did was so much more demanding and important.

I also support the nurses strike. I hope that negotiations can successfully take place though so all of this can be avoided. As I am sure the doctors and nurses do too.