To ask what people have against Labour?

[TheSmallestOneWasMadeline]

I have come across lots of people who, even while admitting that the Conservatives are far from ideal, seem to scrunch their nose up and say 'but, ew, Labour' when talking about politics.

I have to admit I dont understand what it is that people think is so terrible about them and nobody ever cares to elaborate! I always vote for them as I think their principles align pretty closely with my own even if I don't agree with absolutely e everything they stand for.

Could someone please explain what people think is so terrible about them that they would do a worse job at running the country than the Conservatives have done?

@TwoSheetstothewind56 so it's objectionable for labour supporters to say 'tory scum' but totally fine for you to call them 'the class hatred gang?'

Incidentally upthread labour are accused of being middle class elites so...??

Oh come on. Try Twitter. Or, frankly, Mumsnet.
Anyone would think there were receipts for baby eating the way some people wank on.

A lot of what they have done is scummy, including this latest budget or waging war on the poor with austerity (i.e. making the poor pay for the banks collapsing). How many disabled people did they kill?

Now it's house prices, ;pensions and interest rates that are being affected and suddenly the middle classes decide actually they don't like the Tories anymore (red wall as well).

That’s a fair point. So what other reasons do you not like Labour?

Spiteful policies like abolishing the charitable status of charities that run private schools - it makes no economic or practical sense but it makes the class hatred gang feel better about themselves

To be fair abolishing it would only see about 100m in the treasury coffers which is peanuts really, not even a decent Euromillions win !

John Smith was only not polarising because he DIED. If he had become leader of the Labour Party the legacy would have been quite different. Lady Smith is incredibly conservative... I know some whose husband worked for her.

How long have you been on MN? .
Honestly if any one with influence in the party ever read mn they would learn so much.

It's free intelligent feedback.

I'd they listened to mn they would have the best party by now, ready to go and win the next election.

But then marks and Spencer would also be the world's best store! Detailed, amazing threads with so much incredible insight..

Oh well!!

No, you have it backwards.

I know this is a big ask for many Tories, but maybe look around how other developed countries manage it. Many of them in Europe.

You know what? It's this kind of smug, tone deaf, we're so much more fucking superior than you morons comment that REALLY puts people off.
That and the la la we're not listening Oh but Torieeees rather than actually acknowledging the real issues and problems and doing something about them.
And no, never voted Tory. Nor Labour fwiw.

Excuse me? I never called them the ‘class hatred gang’

Ironically enough, in the US (mostly), accusations of baby-eating aren’t uncommon against left-wing politicians.

That full on Socialist principles don’t actually appeal to people despite what they say.

The arrogant assumption that only Socialists are on the side of the angels.

The sense of moral entitlement to railroad, belittle and silence non-believers.

For Foot see Corbyn. For Militant Tendency see Momentum. The extremists are always lurking.

Forsaking the working class for identity politics.

The hypocrisy - ref Dianne Abbott and her choices around the schooling of her children.

Actually, ref Dianne Abbott to characterise most of the things that people have got against Labour 😆

Actually, ref Dianne Abbott to characterise most of the things that people have got against Labour

I see this a lot, the sneering at Dianne Abbott, what exactly is it that you don't like about her ?

Obviously I will give you time to google !

Those intent on a vote for women’s rights should keep their eyes keenly peeled for the New government’s stance on abortion (Therese Coffey is staunchly pro-life) and gay marriage.
But its ok because they hate trans people.
Funny how these things tend to go together…..

The above should (obv) read anti gay marriage

Gosh. A* Missing the Point with bonus Neatly Illustrating My Other Comment there.
Whataboutery won't cut it mate.

Oh don't be so gullible. As if the Tories give a fuck about women.

The difference is that Labour people like Angela Rayner will insult you to your face and you'll know exactly where you stand with them. The Tories will just smile benignly, tell you how much they've enjoyed meeting you and then a few weeks later, swiftly insert a metaphorical silver dagger. Jacob Rees Mogg is renowned for being unflappably polite but exploited Brexit for every penny he could get out of it.

@TwoSheetstothewind56

I can’t answer for the next election - we will have to see manifestos etc.

I have voted Tory before because at the time I thought that Tories were generally more pragmatic, more in touch with reality, more considered and less driven by blind hatred. I also prefer it when politicians are not afraid to talk about what is good about our country, rather than constant cynicism and criticism about the things which most people value. I was really pleased when the coalition was formed in 2010 - I thought it was the start of something positive where the LDs would keep the Tories honest on things like the environment and education and the Tories would enlighten the LDs on some of the tough decisions you have to make when you are in power.

On the flip side I have always seen Labour as a movement which does not think too carefully about a problem because it only has two answers to any problem, whatever it is - hatred (blame Jews/the rich/politicians/business/ Tories/the wrong kind of black people for everything) and throwing a lot of money at the public sector.

Aside from the obvious surreal situations where senior Labour politicians insist people can change sex, or that Russia is misunderstood and the war in Ukraine is all the West’s fault, a more mundane example of detachment from reality is that Labour did not have - still doesn’t - a workable migration/borders policy. Shouting “Priti Patel is evil” is not actually a policy. It is fine to say we should relax asylum rules and processes and establish safe routes to entry - but you also need to have a view on how many asylum seekers and economic migrants a year you think would be too many for the UK to absorb, and what you would do to keep us below those numbers. But obvs Labour won’t do that because it would involve acknowledgement that this stuff is hard and sometimes as a Government you are going to have to make tough decisions.

Locally Labour were in control of our council for a number of years and were inept and often corrupt. Since there's been a NOC with the Conservatives and the smaller parties, it has been run better. Not perfect by any means, but more purposefully. All neighbourhoods now have funding. Labour withdrew all funding to the naice Conservative suburbs. Deprived (usually Labour) areas do need more support, but that doesn't justify leaving some areas with nothing. Politics and taxation works best when everyone gets something.

Looking at Mark Drakeford and Labour in Wales also gives me no confidence in the wider party. Wales imposed further Covid restrictions for longer, and Kier Starmer would have done the same. If he had, we'd have been in bigger econonical shit than we've been until Truss did her "mini budget"

Labour have had 12 years in opposition. The Momentum/ Corbyn years were a disaster losing traditional Labour heartlands to Boris Johnson who managed to convince people feeling left behind that he could "level up" and improve their situation. If Boris Johnson can achieve that, why can't Labour be that persuasive? Labour are still hung up on irrelevant twaddle like private schools and nationalising the railways. The railways were a wreck throughout the nationalised era and suffered major lack of investment, often with fatal consequences.

I won't say never to voting Labour, but I still haven't really heard a clear vision from Kier Starmer of what his Labour government would be working towards and he's had 2½ years so far and an absolute gift of a government to oppose.

Labour ideology is their achilles (and the converse is why Conservatives have a teflon layer). There is a significant section of vocal Labour supporter who are unpleasantly righteous, patronising and often downright insulting. There's a blamey assumption that if you don't vote Labour, it's your fault for voting Conservative (hint: other parties are avaliable) Hypocrisy smells worse from people who make our they're more righteous. The far left and far right are as toxic as each other and the circle joins up underneath.

I could be pursuaded by a centrist Labour party focusing on pragmatic policy over constantly recycled ideology, but time is running out to look convincing, even against the current shit show in number 10.
Plus Labour need to state that they understand what a woman is. If they can't then there's no hope of recognising biological facts, safeguarding and women's rights if they come into power.
For all the Blair's Babes and tinkering with selection lists, they still haven't had a female leader. The Conservatives do seem to be more open in who they let climb the greasy pole.

TBH no party is filling me with confidence and at the last election it was a case of holding my nose and voting for a minority party so they'd keep their deposit, and I very nearly spoiled.

They would have my vote in a heartbeat if they could make clear they understood the difference between sex (biological fact) and gender (social construct). Till then my vote will remain elsewhere.

…..though to be fair, on the basis they don’t seem to understand the difference of simple scientific fact I’m not sure I’d trust them to do any better at maths than the current imbeciles. I’d rather go Lib Dem!!

Labour needs to get it's house in order and be far more willing to kick out people, MPs, members, everyone, when they make the party look bad. Diane Abbott should have been gone decades ago, she is a massive liability to the party, costs them far more votes than she gains. Emily Thornberry should have been gone about 20 minutes after her infamous tweet.

I hear she's a good MP for her constituency, and they've certainly voted her in repeatedly over the years. However she is not good in a (shadow) cabinet position and made several bloopers on the campaign trail during interviews. While her health was blamed, it's not reassuring to witness a prominent MP go to pieces while they're campaigning. By coincidence Theresa May has the same/similar condition. Obviously individual management varies, but it was not a professional image oozing competence. Politics is brutal like that.