To ask what people have against Labour?

[TheSmallestOneWasMadeline]

I have come across lots of people who, even while admitting that the Conservatives are far from ideal, seem to scrunch their nose up and say 'but, ew, Labour' when talking about politics.

I have to admit I dont understand what it is that people think is so terrible about them and nobody ever cares to elaborate! I always vote for them as I think their principles align pretty closely with my own even if I don't agree with absolutely e everything they stand for.

Could someone please explain what people think is so terrible about them that they would do a worse job at running the country than the Conservatives have done?

One big difference that you will see if the Labour Party get in. Conservatives will not be insulting them in SM like Labour voters do. It is so off putting. I for example never hear conservatives making such vitriolic comments about the worse Mayor London ever had. Sadiq Khan gets a free pass for from Labour and this is proof of their hypocrisy.

@MintJulia has it right earlier in the thread. Over the past few years when I think of Labour, I think of sneering, hatred, bigotry and jealousy towards anyone who may hold different views. The tape of Angela Rayner when she had had a few said it all. That is who she is. KS wants her gone but she is imposed upon him.

Whilst there are truly horrible people in the conservative party, I have never come across the raw hatred and toxicity I dealt with in my line of work with the Labour Party. They have an electable leader in KS, but I strongly suspect AR will try and topple him if they are voted in. I have family members who are involved with the Labour Party and believe me, they are as contemptuous of Keir Starmer as they are of the tories.

Of course, oh except when Johnson slurred

Whoops posted it before I finished

Except when Johnson slurred Jimmy Saville against Kier Starmer

It's a mixed bag. Many people need a hand up so they can become more independent and move on with their lives. And some do just take, demand more, and refuse to help themselves. Because they don't think they need to. It's representative of the population isnt it.

Oddly though, the welfare budget is made up of people who have worked and earned a state pension ( about 41% of the total welfare budget ) Then you have people who are working but in lower paid jobs and need a top up from the state because business 'can't afford' to pay better wages, people who are looking for work (if they don't follow the criteria they don't get any money ) and people who are disabled/ill health or looking after disabled/ill dependents. Now I am sure you will know someone who is ill or disabled who you think isn't and shouldn't be getting money, but those people are in a tiny minority and if you have genuine concerns you could always report them ?

I remember John Smith's death being announced at the Tory party conference in 1994. There was an audible gasp from the audience, people were clearly saddened and shocked. I have no doubt whatsoever that if there had been a Labour conference going on when Margaret Thatcher died, the announcement of her death would have sparked raucous cheering and celebrations among the attendees.

I’m a swing voter - I’m not enthused by the idea of a wealth tax, I don’t think TWAW and I think Labour supporters are ruder online than others.

i do, however, like Keir Starmer who has got rid of the anti semites and I like Jess Philips most of the time. I could vote for them next time but I do need a couple of things cleared up. And I want a centrist party. Whoever’s nearer the middle (like most sane people), gets my vote.

So are a lot of people on the right.

Sorry but just to check, this is sarcasm…right?

You never have to look far to find angry, and often racist, anti-Khan vitriol.

I have two main concerns re Labour. One is that they don't properly research the impact of their proposed tax policies (eg the impact of their proposed financial transactions tax, and where the cost would ultimately fall). The second is that they seem to struggle to define "women" and I'm seriously concerned that they don't take protection of women's sex based rights seriously.

Incidentally, have we seen that the Chair of the Young Conservatives tweets, ahead of the conference in Birmingham this week, about how Birmingham is a dump and his accompanying Islamophobia?

Thatcher was a completely polarising figure. Smith was not. I don't condone the celebration of anyone's death, but you are making a meaningless comparison.

Being able to rip foxes to bits is the hill you want to die on?

I have two main concerns re Labour. One is that they don't properly research the impact of their proposed tax policies.

The last week has felt like the Conservatives have read your statement and said 'hold my beer' !

What Tory leader hasn't been a polarising figure to Labour members?

Generally speaking though if people who didn't like Labour didn't vote Tory and people who didn't like Tory didn't just vote Labour then things would be better.

But until we bring in PR nothing is ever really going to change.

Actually Rachel Reeves is a serious economist. I think you will find they will be careful and thorough in this respect.

Personally I support sex based rights but this is an extremely complex, nuanced issue which is going to need time to work through, in every country. I don't understand withdrawing support from Labour on the basis of this single issue.

I don't think PR would make as big a difference as many people think. There's already separate factions and alliances within the parties, they'd just be brought out into the open. It'd just end up like American politics with effectively 2 parties, a left wing block and a right wing block. Any party that coalesced with parties on the "other" side in order to become part of government would get the same treatment the Libdems got when they coalesced with the Tories in 2010.

I voted Tory in 2017 and LD in 2019. I don’t think I’ve ever said Ewww Labour or even heard this said by others.

What I have regularly heard for years is stuff about “Tory scum” “all Tories are evil” “I’d never be friends with Tory” “all Tories are on the make/take” etc etc. While LDs tend to come in for disdain and sneers of a different kind - basically that LDs are useless sell outs.

These attitudes do not encourage me to vote Labour.

Three other things that make me not want to vote Labour:

• Self ID (when will they ever learn). Mind you LDs have now fallen down this rabbit hole too so God knows who I vote for next time
• Spiteful policies like abolishing the charitable status of charities that run private schools - it makes no economic or practical sense but it makes the class hatred gang feel better about themselves
• Anti-semitism, which always seems just below the surface

@TheSmallestOneWasMadeline Nice one OP 😂

It'd just end up like American politics with effectively 2 parties, a left wing block and a right wing block

Isn't that what we essentially have now ? Labour v Conservative looks a lot like Republican v Democrat from a numbers point of view. The problem is most people are centric or just off the centre, either way, politically. When the main parties go too far from the centre in either direction, a lot of us become politically homeless. The dialogue also becomes more divisive.

This is a weird take.

The US is one of the relatively few other countries that has a FPTP electoral system and our politics is already very similar to theirs (i.e. largely dominated by 2 major parties).

What values make you vote Tory? Food banks or tax cuts for the rich? Asking for a friend

There's obviously decent Tories (although most of them were kicked out the party by Boris, like Rory Stewart) but the Tories have destroyed this country for the last 12 years. It's only natural people are angry at them.

They don't know what a woman is for a start.