Nurses taking Strike Action

[shmiz]

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

@usernamealreadytaken

I couldn't open your link. I dont know where it was from.

The fact you need to ask why anyone would leave nursing because of the pay (which is shite for the role) tells me everything I need to know.

You dont know what you're talking about.

The figures are from NHS Digital workforce statistics.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwibJHvv_NL6AhVUnFwKHaGJDSsQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdigital.nhs.uk%2Fdata-and-information%2Fpublications%2Fstatistical%2Fnhs-workforce-statistics&usg=AOvVaw2KJHBj47KgDVw715-44uit

The data has also been analysed by Kingsfund, which shows an increase in the number of doctors and nurses.
www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs

Gov.uk also links to the NHS figures

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/nhs-workforce-statistics-june-2022

Having spent 3 months in hospital and what I witnessed I don’t know why they stay in their career.

An increase in staff over the last 10 years does not negate the fact that nurses are leaving now

Or that lots of student nurses don't qualify.

Tbh I'm not sure why you're so keen to deny the issue.

Your own link from the Kingsfund discusses the staffing crisis

Maybe you should read it?

Denying the issue, as the govt have, is only going to keep making it worse

There are 10,000 more nurses & HV now than there were a year ago (June-June). There's been a slight decrease June-March this year. What's happened in those three months could be part of a normal pattern, as it was under Labour too. The anti-Tory activists constantly tell us that things were better under Labour; hospitals had more staff - that's patently not the case as the actual headcount figures show.

@usernamealreadytaken

I dont care about labour. Or tories or the snp.

Denying the facts because you want to pretend the tories are better than Labour is pointless

The nhs needs proper staffing and funding. I dont care which political party achieves that.

Although it's obvious the tories won't.

Did you actually look at the figures? If we have more staff now than in the last year, how does that fit the narrative that staff are leaving in droves and hospitals are under staffed? Unless you want to make it mandatory for staff to move to where there are shortages, how would you like to fill the never ending staff shortages? Given that we have more staff on payroll now than at pretty much any other time, don't you think there may be other issues, such as an increase in population, people not taking responsibility for their own health and expecting more and more services, abuse by foreign health-tourists (small but significant, and which medical staff refuse to address)?

Did you read any of the links that show there is a staffing crisis or are you just going to keep clinging on to the tories are better than Labour mantra that is completely irrelevant?

Yes, there are lots of other issues (foreign health tourists really isn't 1 of them) but those issues are compounded and worsened by staff shortages.

Trying to make out its a tory v Labour thing when health and social care staff shortages are a global issues is completely bizarre

Hospitals are also busier so staff being up doesn't always solve an issue

For example

Oct-march weave a won't escalation ward. 28 beds. This ward is now medical escalation and is all year round We have another ward open for winter escalation which is 24 bed. However it's open sept-may generally and they are looking at keeping this open. Both covered by bank and agency with only a handful of perm staff.

Amu I has gone from 36-50 beds. No extra perm staff.

Decision unit has gone for 8 bed to 20 with a 4 patient clinic. The old 8 bed is now frail and elderly decision. Decision unit perm staff hasn't increased. It's covered by bank and agency.

Liver clinic in gastro has moved to out patients. Gastro inc from 30 to 36 beds. No extra staff.

A surgical ward has no had 8 of it's 28 beds turned into step down from crit care. These patients should be nursed at a 1:4 ration. However only 3 staff are on shift due to staffing and if there's no staff to be moved they have to crack on with more demanding patients and less time for the other patients

We have had 2 modular 38 bed wards built. Again not enough perm staff to cover them.

Our old discharge lounge has been turned into a 16 bed ward. No extra staff despite patients on there requiring more intervention and care.

This is just off the top of my head. There will have been changes in areas I'm unaware of. But numbers rising in staffing doesn't ness match the increase in patients or their needs.

We have a medical escalation ward*

That typing was awful sorry.

What were the figures three years ago? Are we up or down on those figures?

@usernamealreadytaken Are you getting 0.1p per post from Tory central office to post rubbish trying to say how great the NHS is and how nurses have a good deal and should just shut up? Your posts are blatant political posturing - and this is from someone who works in the NHS who doesn't think "Labour was always better" btw.

@Cornettoninja
June 19 323,954
June 20 337,604
June 21 346,802
June 22 356,346

So you can see my point - how can nurses be leaving in droves when headcount is increasing year on year in actual real terms, unless the problem is that there are too many part-time workers and shifts don't get filled? I'd really love to hear somebody explain that disparity.

I'd also love to know how much pay would be enough, given that the starting salary of £27k has all-but guaranteed uplifts through shift allowances, and theoretically a nurse could work one shift per week and earn around £14k (£22.50ph for a 12hr Sunday shift, one shift per week for a year would net £14k - a band 5 nurse with seven years could earn over £16k for that one shift).

I wish! Are you a nurse or other clinician? Ex-SIL was a midwife and DSD is a nurse currently, although she left the NHS due to health reasons and now manages a charitable health service.

There's no place I've said that nurses get a good deal and should shut up - I'm asking, given their actual published salaries, how much would be enough and how do we get nurses in the right place, given that there are actually more of them now than at pretty much any point ever.

Thanks @usernamealreadytaken, I’m wary of healthcare comparisons with peak-covid years. I think there are a lot of factors that don’t make them true comparisons iyswim.

There is a figure bandied about (which I haven’t got sourced to hand) making similar comparisons with other professions that fails to highlight that there was a significant drop in preceding years making the recent increase still less than previous levels.

@usernamealreadytaken

How are those figures broken down by band?

To answer your other question, you could double nurse pay and it still wouldnt be enough for what they do.

However safer staffing levels would be more effective in keeping nurses at work.

I agree @Topgub. I believe that if the emotion could be removed from the scenario most would recognise that a better working conditions (higher levels of staff leading to less pressure and ability to perform their roles properly, more flexibility, opportunities for promotions etc.) could possibly make the salaries alongside the more obvious benefits like job security and pretty good annual leave/sick pay ‘worth it’.

Thats generally the impression I get off NHS friends now. I know for me that was the point I reached in leaving.

Ah the figures

lets ignore peoples experiences and actual knowledge of how hospitals and community teams are struggling and just look to the figures 🙄

we are really struggling in our team, in our trust, in the trusts with partner with as other trusts are across the country

but the numbers tell such a different story what a surprise

I’ve been a nurse for 30 years - all of that experience in large acute hospitals. I am in a very senior nursing post now and I believe that my experience is far more meaningful than some reported numbers.

I am genuinely very disturbed to see what is happening to the profession I love and our patients whom we care for.

staffing numbers on the wards are on there bare bones. This is a result of huge increase in ‘escalation’ beds being opened and a global nursing shortage which simplified means there are just not enough nurses to provide the most basic of care needs.

it is the norm to have 2 nurses to 35 patients. Those 35 patients will have complex care needs, on multiple medications and require lots of nursing care. Nurses are exhausted, broken and morally injured from consistently working in the most terrible circumstances.

being a nurse in the UK and our training used to be seen as the best in the world. It breaks my heart to see our incredible profession, which should always be there with compassion when you need it to be totally destroyed.

This is a labour v Tory issue btw. The Tories have eroded our NHS. Anyone of you who continues to support them, I cannot fathom how you sleep at night.

How have the Tories eroded the NHS, given that the headcount is higher now than it was when Labour was last in power? What about the conditions has attracted record numbers of staff, but record low morale?

So how do you explain the record headcount but shortage of staff? Is it that the Tories have made it easier to work part time, leading to lower wages (you don't get a full time wage for part time hours), or because it's too easy to move location leaving some hospitals/specialisations short staffed, or is it because too many staff are off sick, or some other reason? How will higher wages stop people from moving, or changing specialisation, or getting sick?

@usernamealreadytaken

How are those 300000 nurses split by band?