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Original poster

Nurses taking Strike Action

456 replies

shmiz · 01/10/2022 08:45

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

OP posts:
AgapanthusandAcers · 07/10/2022 19:03

They'd have my support, they are undervalued and underpaid. I know many won't want to strike as they will worry about their patients but they deserve to be paid more for their work. One if parents has been in hospital for months and I cannot express how indebted I am to them for their care.

Topgub · 07/10/2022 19:42

@usernamealreadytaken

I camt open your spreadsheet link.

But every other source tells me that nursing vacancies are currently around 40 k for England alone.

I'm not sure why you think figures from more than 12 years ago are relevant?

usernamealreadytaken · 07/10/2022 19:52

Topgub · 07/10/2022 19:42

@usernamealreadytaken

I camt open your spreadsheet link.

But every other source tells me that nursing vacancies are currently around 40 k for England alone.

I'm not sure why you think figures from more than 12 years ago are relevant?

The figures on the statistics start from 2009, and because we are constantly lead to believe there were more staff and shorter waiting lists under Labour, when in reality there are considerably more staff now, so the question has to be, how is the NHS less effective with more staff?

It's the top spreadsheet data set on this link, if that helps.
digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/june-2022

Topgub · 07/10/2022 20:13

Because the needs of the service have changed.

And more staff is not the same as more nurses

I can think of about 10 specialist roles that didn't exist in 2009.

Shepandawing · 07/10/2022 20:20

I don't think a strike will have much impact now after covid. We had such a long time where the vast majority of NHS services were closed to most people, a few days of strike action won't really be that noticeable now.

Alexandra2001 · 07/10/2022 20:25

@usernamealreadytaken

Haven't the numbers been debunked? in particular how data collected and how a blanket increase in x staff can also mean y staff decrease in another area.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-nhs-workforce-in-numbers#4-what-do-the-shortages-look-like-within-hospital-services

Sahgah · 07/10/2022 22:49

I would also get rid of the 12 hour shifts. They are exhausting and impossible for nurses with families if they don’t have grandparents around to look after children as there is no affordable childcare that can cover these hours.

The overlap of staff is great for staff completing paperwork so they can get off on time and also for education/training sessions.

If nurses are paid properly they won’t feel they have to work so many shifts to pay the bills and if working 12 hours they can get more hours done in the week but it just causes burnout.

I had to leave my nursing role due to childcare as my work refused my flexible working request and now work agency where I can have more choice over my hours. And most of my shifts are back at my old ward but now get paid more for it.

Topgub · 07/10/2022 22:54

@Sahgah

We're you a single parent?

All my staff like the shifts precisely because they can work less days and don't need childcare.

JustAWeirdoWithNoName · 07/10/2022 23:01

I left my non-clinical role in the NHS about a year ago and 100% support the propose strike. Nursing has been chronically understaffed for years - if the strike can help them negotiate pay that might retain more nurses, I'm all for it.

The NHS needs to be properly sorted out (if it can limp on until the tories are ousted)

Sahgah · 08/10/2022 13:15

No not a single parent but OH also works NHS but earns significantly more than me and also works long hours with on calls and attending.

Afterschool clubs would become booked up by the time the Rota was released as other parents with set days of work would book days a whole term at a time. I couldn’t do drop off or pick up. Breakfast club would start too late for my start and Afterschool club finished well before my shift ended.

OH has to work full time as we can’t pay our mortgage in London on my nurses wage. It works sometimes when I could work early shifts as I could be back to pick up from Afterschool club but long days were impossible.
no family whatsoever to help us.

RegardingMary · 08/10/2022 13:39

I worked as the only qualified nurse on a 28 bed unit last night. I provided a heartbreaking level of care to my patients as I had to spread myself so thin. These are seriously vulnerable adults with complex needs who are acutely unwell.

if anything went wrong, at all, I would have been the one at fault, not the system, but me personally. There are very few jobs in the world where you'd turn up, have no staff, no equipment or resources and you'd still be expected to carry on and provide the same level of work.

This has to stop.
The strike is so much more than asking for more pay.
It's wanting the government to recognise our worth.
It's wanting the government to take the staffing crisis serious and act.

RegardingMary · 08/10/2022 13:45

@Topgub

My hospital is plugging nursing gaps with nursing associates at huge risk. Typically its an 'all the gear and no idea' set up. Its amazing how many nurses I know have said they didn't realise how much nurses needed the degree until seeing the NA level or knowledge and skill.
Practically, day to day they are able to go through the motions and complete tasks, but the knowledge base they have is low. They don't have the autonomy to act in an emergency as they've not had enough theoretically training. They don't have a thorough understanding of how the human body works, or how disease affects it.

Yet its becoming common now in my trust to run a 28 bed ward on 1 qualified nurse and 1 NA.

Topgub · 08/10/2022 13:47

@RegardingMary

Did you mean to tag me?

Toddlerteaplease · 08/10/2022 23:21

I'm in paediatrics and we complain that we are badly staffed with two registered nurses to up to 12 patients on nights. Our ratio is 1:4. And 1:6 at night. I'm so glad I'm not adult trained.

Mummyme87 · 09/10/2022 06:55

Midwifery staffing levels are atrocious. On a postnatal ward we have 32beds and there’s two patients per bed, 1mw to 8 beds. It is absolute carnage and not fair on the women or the staff

VashtaNerada · 09/10/2022 07:02

I’m supporting all the strikes happening at the moment. I understand that people working in a non-unionised workforce think “what about me?” but the point is that unions drive standards for everyone. So many of the protections that are now in law started from unions taking a stand. Until a general election is called, strike action and peaceful protest are pretty much the only power ordinary people have. We should absolutely be using it.

PurpleFlower1983 · 09/10/2022 07:14

Battlecat98 · 06/10/2022 09:27

As an NHS nurse I thank you all for your thoughts on our strike action. I was talking to a colleague about it yesterday, and she was saying it makes her feel physically sick. I am not sure where I stand yet, of course we will ensure no harm comes to patients however, every day harm is happening.

The condition in the NHS are dreadful for staff and patients. Strike action is an absolute last resort and honestly it's not really about the money, you have to want to do the job and most of us love it but, we are so understaffed it's making us physically and mentally ill. We cannot retain staff and we go home daily, fearing we will loose our pin number and about the patients we couldn't help.

I could and do cry about what I have seen and done because I am letting my patients down, end of life patients waiting for care because a septic patient will die without me and I cannot do everything.

The NHS is abused I could tell you many stories, patients are waiting longer for procedures, some are dying while they wait, some are so sick by the time they come in we have to really fight to save them and they stay in hospital for longer.

We are trying to do everything with literally nothing. The only way I get through is to shut myself down to do my job, I felt guilty yesterday as I sat with a dying man for 5 whole minutes all the while I had 100 other things I needed to do.
We get abuse physically and verbally daily, that includes management who are stressed. I am quite tough so I don't always take it personally but the new/younger staff do and it breaks them.

This is not the job I want, I always take the patients 'home' with me, those I have let down but, they are not the ones whose lives we save, it's the small things, time with dying patients and their family, talking to a lonely elderly person about their amazing life, or with someone who has been given bad news. I could weep for these people. They keep me up at night, but if I give up who will step in? We have record vacancies. My family take the brunt of my feelings of failure, and my days off are spent exhausted.

Any suggestions for how we get the Tories to listen without strike action would make alot of nurses very happy. This is an attempt to save the NHS it's much more complex than money.

Thank you for the amazing work you do. You have my full support whatever happens.

Haroldandhilda · 09/10/2022 07:17

I work full time as a nurse. I gave up the 12 hour shifts many years ago as I absolutely hated them. I now work 7. 5 hour shifts (start time and days vary but no night shift).

I appreciate that 12 hour shifts suit many people but I would never, ever go back to doing them. They ruined my life and wrecked my marriage.

I fully support strike action and have already posted my ballot paper.

usernamealreadytaken · 09/10/2022 11:22

Alexandra2001 · 07/10/2022 20:25

@usernamealreadytaken

Haven't the numbers been debunked? in particular how data collected and how a blanket increase in x staff can also mean y staff decrease in another area.

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-nhs-workforce-in-numbers#4-what-do-the-shortages-look-like-within-hospital-services

Not sure how your post debunks the figures? It still shows there to have been an increase in staffing numbers - regional issues cannot be extrapolated to become a national crisis; if people don't want to work in an area or specialisation, that's what needs to be examined. The figures also point to the issue being related to the lack of full time staff - which is why I pointed out that if you have a higher headcount but a shortage of cover, the issue is that too many staff are working part time. It still absolutely shows that nurses are not leaving the profession in droves.

Topgub · 09/10/2022 11:30

@usernamealreadytaken

You are completely misinformed.

usernamealreadytaken · 09/10/2022 11:33

Topgub · 09/10/2022 11:30

@usernamealreadytaken

You are completely misinformed.

How so? I'm analysing the data from NHS HR and it indicates that nurses are not leaving the profession in droves. Anecdotal reports are not borne out in the figures.

Lapland123 · 09/10/2022 11:34

@usernamealreadytaken

what sort of nonsense are you speaking ‘too many staff are working part time’

who are you to comment on people’s lives and other responsibilities they need to balance

usernamealreadytaken · 09/10/2022 11:37

Mummyme87 · 09/10/2022 06:55

Midwifery staffing levels are atrocious. On a postnatal ward we have 32beds and there’s two patients per bed, 1mw to 8 beds. It is absolute carnage and not fair on the women or the staff

The number of midwives employed by the NHS has increased since 2010 (although it has decreased since it peaked in 2020 after ten years of Cons government). Do you think the issue regional, or due to more staff choosing to work part time, or just population increases meaning more babies are being born (despite the fact our birth rate is decreasing)?

usernamealreadytaken · 09/10/2022 11:44

Topgub · 09/10/2022 11:39

You can keep posting links to various reports, but they still don't explain why figures from the actual NHS (not hearsay, I'm sure you'll agree) show a significant increase in headcount. How are nurses leaving in droves, when headcount is increasing? The only rational explanation is that there are significant numbers of part time staff - why would you leave a job paying a min band 5 starting sal of £27k + shift allowance (+ regional uplift for London areas) + overtime? A newly qualified full time nurse would be earning over £30k (potentially well over) unless Mon-Fri 9-5 - not sure there are any of those positions available!) which is not an unreasonable STARTING salary.