AIBU?
Nurses taking Strike Action
shmiz · 01/10/2022 08:45
AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates
Am I being unreasonable?
AIBUYou have one vote. All votes are anonymous.
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 12:12
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 12:09
You brought up the subject of debt, so perhaps you were the one changing the subject?
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 12:03
Now you’re changing the topic of conversation. This is about staff wages, not about all the other ridiculous ways the government waste billions of pounds.
The NHS is nothing without its staff and that is exactly where things are heading right now
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:57
You don't think the increasing amounts of debt are largely down to Labour's disastrous PFI debacle? Do you think Labour might do better next time, or are you happy to move from the frying pan in to the fire?
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 11:38
Trusts are in increasing amounts of debt. They don’t have the money but they are borrowing it because they can’t safely have the ward open without staff - the alternative is the close. Wards are also being closed because there aren’t staff, operations cancelled, waiting lists growing.
But you keep telling yourself your own clueless theories…🤦🏻♀️
The money is there, the will in the NHS is not
After all the staff have done risking their lives in Covid, they still work through their unpaid lunch break, stay late at the end of every shift and continue to work. You clearly expect them to all just come and work for nothing everyday
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:30
The government gives the money to the NHS and it's the NHS which decides how to spend it. If the NHS can afford £42 to pay agency nurses to fill shifts, it can afford £42 to pay NHS nurses to fill shifts - it's really quite simple. The money is there, the will in the NHS is not; nothing to do with conspiracy theories about the government wanting to privatise the NHS - the NHS has the money already and is spending it, it's just being spent poorly.
walkinginsunshinekat · 30/11/2022 11:00
@usernamealreadytaken You clearly have no idea, believe the NHS is awash with money, nursing is a vocation, should be kept as a low paid job, bills pay themselves and that the 45k shortfall in nurses is imagined.
Oh and also think people should work weekends and bank holidays for fun.
To correct your ludicrous idea that the NHS has money to burn!🤦🏻♀️ Not because I am opening discussion for other government spending initiatives
You’ve proven to me how clueless and uneducated you are on the topic. I’m done - can only hope the general public are more switched on than you are when they decide whether to support public sector workers or not
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 12:45
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 12:12
To correct your ludicrous idea that the NHS has money to burn!🤦🏻♀️ Not because I am opening discussion for other government spending initiatives
You’ve proven to me how clueless and uneducated you are on the topic. I’m done - can only hope the general public are more switched on than you are when they decide whether to support public sector workers or not
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 12:09
You brought up the subject of debt, so perhaps you were the one changing the subject?
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 12:03
Now you’re changing the topic of conversation. This is about staff wages, not about all the other ridiculous ways the government waste billions of pounds.
The NHS is nothing without its staff and that is exactly where things are heading right now
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:57
You don't think the increasing amounts of debt are largely down to Labour's disastrous PFI debacle? Do you think Labour might do better next time, or are you happy to move from the frying pan in to the fire?
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 11:38
Trusts are in increasing amounts of debt. They don’t have the money but they are borrowing it because they can’t safely have the ward open without staff - the alternative is the close. Wards are also being closed because there aren’t staff, operations cancelled, waiting lists growing.
But you keep telling yourself your own clueless theories…🤦🏻♀️
The money is there, the will in the NHS is not
After all the staff have done risking their lives in Covid, they still work through their unpaid lunch break, stay late at the end of every shift and continue to work. You clearly expect them to all just come and work for nothing everyday
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:30
The government gives the money to the NHS and it's the NHS which decides how to spend it. If the NHS can afford £42 to pay agency nurses to fill shifts, it can afford £42 to pay NHS nurses to fill shifts - it's really quite simple. The money is there, the will in the NHS is not; nothing to do with conspiracy theories about the government wanting to privatise the NHS - the NHS has the money already and is spending it, it's just being spent poorly.
walkinginsunshinekat · 30/11/2022 11:00
@usernamealreadytaken You clearly have no idea, believe the NHS is awash with money, nursing is a vocation, should be kept as a low paid job, bills pay themselves and that the 45k shortfall in nurses is imagined.
Oh and also think people should work weekends and bank holidays for fun.
I'm a public sector worker...
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 12:51
reesewithoutaspoon · 30/11/2022 12:12
In 37 years I have never been paid a full shift uplifted for working half of it, because shifts don't work like that.
unsocial hours are 30% for nights and Saturday day or night, 60% for sunday or BH.
When we work a Saturday night we get paid 4.5 hours at time and 30% and 6.5 hours at time and 60%. Even though the bulk of the hours are on a Sunday we don't get the whole shift uplifted to Sunday rate.
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 10:10
Funnily enough 8pm-6am, Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays are all uplifted, as are wages in high cost living areas. If more than half a shift falls in unsocial hours, the full shift is paid at the uplifted rate. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Pjsandhotchoc · 30/11/2022 09:54
Ok, thanks for your advice, that completely solves our problems. I’ll be sure to let every nurse on my ward know that if we just all work Sundays, there isn’t an issue!
I’m sure my ward manager will have no problem complying with this, as of course, she could put all 60 nurses on shift on a Sunday. Then we will all get our unsociable hours payments, hooray!
I don’t know why we haven’t thought of this before, silly nurses hey! Thanks again!
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 08:44
The nearly £17 an hour is the hourly wage for a salary of £32,934, and the "random" £27 is the £17 an hour with the Sunday shift uplift - like the random £42 an hour you quoted for "some shifts" - assuming these are the unsocial hours shifts.
If NHS staff worked on Sundays at £27 an hour instead of going to agencies to work for £42, they would be paid a decent wage and the NHS wouldn't have to cover staff with higher costing agency workers. There are posts on here from workers who deliberately work part time so that they can take up agency shifts to be paid more - it seems non-sensical because if they didn't work the agency shifts there would be more money to actually pay them a decent wage.
Nurses are humans; some nurses are absolute angels who care entirely about their work and patients, some are not - it's the same with any human.
TheLoupGarou · 29/11/2022 20:57
Sorry what?
I personally am 'bleeding the coffers dry' by occasionally working extra shifts, over and above my contracted hours in my permanent post, for a different trust?
Shifts that would otherwise be uncovered?
If I work for staff bank I get my own hourly rate - am not in England, so it is not "nearly £17" per hour and I don't know where you are randomly getting £27 from.
Gettaefuck
usernamealreadytaken · 29/11/2022 20:35
Surely as a top of band 5 earning nearly £17 an hr, you'd earn up to £27 an hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Perhaps if more nurses actually did their work for the NHS, then the NHS would have more money to pay them as they wouldn't be paying agency wages? You're literally bleeding the coffers dry rather than working for your own employer 😢
TheLoupGarou · 26/11/2022 22:09
I'm an ED nurse. At top of band 5 I earn about £16 per hour. As an agency nurse in ED I can earn up to £42 per hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Yes, when I need extra money I do agency work, outside my own trust. Who wouldn't?
Sorry, my mistake - that only applies to Friday/Saturday or Sunday/Monday shifts. I had mis-read and you do have my apologies.
www.nhsemployers.org/articles/unsocial-hours-payments
walkinginsunshinekat · 30/11/2022 13:16
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:59
Millions of people worked throughout Covid, and died at similar rates to healthcare workers. Perhaps we should all get a 19% pay rise - wait and see how much more your weekly shop costs when shop workers are given a similar rise for risking their lives, and then see how much further that hard-fought for rise goes. Excessive pay rises drive inflation for everyone, and the poorest will suffer the most, probably putting more strain on healthcare services leading to nurses needing higher pay to cope with the additional workload...
That cannot be true, because we have had at least a decade of pay freezes and below inflation pay rises, so by your own logic, inflation should be very low right now.
Or is the war in Ukraine and supply chain issues from Asia driving inflation?
Why would an inflation matching pay rise drive inflation? there is no extra money in the economy, taking inflation into account.
Funny how Tories support pay rises for MPs, bankers and won't tax share, investment dividends and CGT at the same rate as income tax (though its income!) but everyone else can go without.
walkinginsunshinekat · 30/11/2022 13:23
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:57
You don't think the increasing amounts of debt are largely down to Labour's disastrous PFI debacle? Do you think Labour might do better next time, or are you happy to move from the frying pan in to the fire?
prescribingmum · 30/11/2022 11:38
Trusts are in increasing amounts of debt. They don’t have the money but they are borrowing it because they can’t safely have the ward open without staff - the alternative is the close. Wards are also being closed because there aren’t staff, operations cancelled, waiting lists growing.
But you keep telling yourself your own clueless theories…🤦🏻♀️
The money is there, the will in the NHS is not
After all the staff have done risking their lives in Covid, they still work through their unpaid lunch break, stay late at the end of every shift and continue to work. You clearly expect them to all just come and work for nothing everyday
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 11:30
The government gives the money to the NHS and it's the NHS which decides how to spend it. If the NHS can afford £42 to pay agency nurses to fill shifts, it can afford £42 to pay NHS nurses to fill shifts - it's really quite simple. The money is there, the will in the NHS is not; nothing to do with conspiracy theories about the government wanting to privatise the NHS - the NHS has the money already and is spending it, it's just being spent poorly.
walkinginsunshinekat · 30/11/2022 11:00
@usernamealreadytaken You clearly have no idea, believe the NHS is awash with money, nursing is a vocation, should be kept as a low paid job, bills pay themselves and that the 45k shortfall in nurses is imagined.
Oh and also think people should work weekends and bank holidays for fun.
How would you have paid for the large number of hospitals that got built under PFI ?
Or would you have stuck with the largely 1940s and 50s estate the NHS still had after 18 years of the Tories, who did what they always do and ran down the NHS in the 80s and 90s, giving tax cuts with NS oil (much of which went overseas) instead of investing in the UK,
then what did they do with £billions of public assets sold? where did that money go? not on NHS rail or roads let alone social care.
Maybe you would have added it to the nation debt and then seen interest rate payments on that go through the roof after the various Tory financial disasters they ve given us.
Pjsandhotchoc · 30/11/2022 13:26
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 12:51
Sorry, my mistake - that only applies to Friday/Saturday or Sunday/Monday shifts. I had mis-read and you do have my apologies.
www.nhsemployers.org/articles/unsocial-hours-payments
reesewithoutaspoon · 30/11/2022 12:12
In 37 years I have never been paid a full shift uplifted for working half of it, because shifts don't work like that.
unsocial hours are 30% for nights and Saturday day or night, 60% for sunday or BH.
When we work a Saturday night we get paid 4.5 hours at time and 30% and 6.5 hours at time and 60%. Even though the bulk of the hours are on a Sunday we don't get the whole shift uplifted to Sunday rate.
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 10:10
Funnily enough 8pm-6am, Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays are all uplifted, as are wages in high cost living areas. If more than half a shift falls in unsocial hours, the full shift is paid at the uplifted rate. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Pjsandhotchoc · 30/11/2022 09:54
Ok, thanks for your advice, that completely solves our problems. I’ll be sure to let every nurse on my ward know that if we just all work Sundays, there isn’t an issue!
I’m sure my ward manager will have no problem complying with this, as of course, she could put all 60 nurses on shift on a Sunday. Then we will all get our unsociable hours payments, hooray!
I don’t know why we haven’t thought of this before, silly nurses hey! Thanks again!
usernamealreadytaken · 30/11/2022 08:44
The nearly £17 an hour is the hourly wage for a salary of £32,934, and the "random" £27 is the £17 an hour with the Sunday shift uplift - like the random £42 an hour you quoted for "some shifts" - assuming these are the unsocial hours shifts.
If NHS staff worked on Sundays at £27 an hour instead of going to agencies to work for £42, they would be paid a decent wage and the NHS wouldn't have to cover staff with higher costing agency workers. There are posts on here from workers who deliberately work part time so that they can take up agency shifts to be paid more - it seems non-sensical because if they didn't work the agency shifts there would be more money to actually pay them a decent wage.
Nurses are humans; some nurses are absolute angels who care entirely about their work and patients, some are not - it's the same with any human.
TheLoupGarou · 29/11/2022 20:57
Sorry what?
I personally am 'bleeding the coffers dry' by occasionally working extra shifts, over and above my contracted hours in my permanent post, for a different trust?
Shifts that would otherwise be uncovered?
If I work for staff bank I get my own hourly rate - am not in England, so it is not "nearly £17" per hour and I don't know where you are randomly getting £27 from.
Gettaefuck
usernamealreadytaken · 29/11/2022 20:35
Surely as a top of band 5 earning nearly £17 an hr, you'd earn up to £27 an hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Perhaps if more nurses actually did their work for the NHS, then the NHS would have more money to pay them as they wouldn't be paying agency wages? You're literally bleeding the coffers dry rather than working for your own employer 😢
TheLoupGarou · 26/11/2022 22:09
I'm an ED nurse. At top of band 5 I earn about £16 per hour. As an agency nurse in ED I can earn up to £42 per hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Yes, when I need extra money I do agency work, outside my own trust. Who wouldn't?
And as I’ve already tried to explain to you - it doesn’t apply to Friday or Sunday night shifts either. On a Friday night shift you’re paid the same rate of time plus 30% for the whole night. On a Sunday night shift you’re paid Sunday rate 19:30 until midnight and then normal night shift pay of time plus 30% from midnight to 08:00.
You’re so clueless it’s embarrassing.
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